[00:03:58] Host: Gee, I know you were very young, but do you have memories of that journey?

[00:04:04] Angelica: I do because they're very vivid. They're very vivid as a child, having to cross in the middle of the night. I remember crossing, I don't know if it was a river, or some crossing over this waterway. We were crossing with my aunt and my uncle, and I remember that my grandmother had bought me new shoes for this trip. In my aunt's struggle to try to get across, she dropped one of the shoes, and I remember crying and screaming, "My shoe, my shoe, my new shoes," and my aunt just covered my mouth because she didn't want me to scream. I remember that was one time that we were detained. The second time, we were detained because the coyote had this idea that my aunt was very fair-skinned, maybe, maybe she could cross at the US-Mexico border but at the beach side pretending to be just a regular beach goer with us as her kids. We were all in bathing suits and as we were going into the coyote's car, immigration arrived. I remember being in a detention center where there was fluorescent lights and dripping wet. Those are the things.

I think we probably made it on the third try, they separated us from my aunt and my uncle, who were really, they were teenagers 14, 16-year-olds, and they separated us. My sister and I were brought in in a vehicle the third time around, but we finally made it. I do have memories… I have memories that are very seared in my mind, but then there's a lot of things that, just as a child-- I mean, I was very young, so I don't quite remember as well. There are things like arriving to Pasadena, I remember the tunnels that take you on the 110 from LA to Pasadena. I remember the tunnels and how bright I thought they were and I remember the coyote saying, "We're almost to Pasadena." That was something I remembered, and I remember when my mom opened the door. There's a lot of other memories of us arriving, and our first Christmas, and our first toy that we ever got, and that was basically-- Then later on, just growing up and going to school.

[00:06:46] Host: What were some of the challenges that you and your family faced when you were growing up here in California and Pasadena?

[00:06:55] Angelica: My parents were undocumented and they were working. My mom was a garment worker, my dad worked in-- He worked in a laundromat, then worked as a groom. Certainly, just seeing them struggle as workers. Then during that time, especially, this was in the '70s and the mid-late '70s, there was just immigration site raids all the time, they'd get on buses. There was always this talk in the home about immigration being everywhere.

Then definitely, I remember the issue of wages, and then I also remember immigration issues. The biggest piece was, yes, when I was maybe like 10 or 11 years old, there was a worksite raid at my mom's. Those things happened all the time, but this time, she was detained and sent back to Mexico alongside my uncle, my aunt, and really struggling to come back. That's when my dad said, "We've got to do something about this, we can't live like this."

I remember that. Just remember things like, they decided that they were going to tear down our house and because they were going to build something else, we rented it. Having to then move to a different house with all the families that have been displaced. Everybody got a home together. There's a lot of joy because there's so many kids, but I also remember like, you get the living room, you get the dining room where you sleep with your family.

Then my parents looking for a place to rent, and then I was the one who spoke English, and just hearing them being told that they didn't rent to Mexicans, and then my mom would say, "What did they say?" I would say, "Oh, I don't know," because I felt like I didn't want them to hear that. I still remember the house. It's on Marengo. Because we lived on Marengo, and they were looking for these homes. Every time I drive by, I remember the houses that were supposedly for rent, and then hearing them.

Those are the kind of things that stay in your mind. It's still the place I live, and yet I remember very well. Those are the things that stay in your mind. When I drive up Marengo, on the right side, as I go north, it's like, "Oh, that's the house where they told us we couldn't rent because we are Mexicans."

[00:09:27] Host: That's a common role of the children of immigrants is to become this advocate for the family, as it is easier for young people to learn the new language and assimilate into this new way of life.

[00:09:46] Angelica: That's right.

[00:09:47] Host: You are the oldest child, so you had to take on this role for the whole family.

[00:09:54] Angelica: Oh, yes. Definitely. That happens a lot for the oldest of the children. Also, you become a young adult sooner or you're a child but you're dealing with adult things. That happens a lot whether it was going to a doctor and then having to translate for my mom, not understanding how to translate what the doctor was saying to properly translate it back to my mother.

Also, a lot of it was my interfacing with her bosses. She was a garment worker and she did piecework and so just doing the math and trying to explain to my mom that her paycheck was not equal to what she actually did and that they basically were stealing her wages. I remember one of the bosses, my mom would also take work to the house to do piecework after to continue selling. There was one particular boss who came and picked up the dresses my mom had finished. I said, "Hey, this is not-- you pay my mom this? I did the math over and over again. You did it wrong." I was really good at math. I said, "You're doing it wrong," and how mad she got at me and how she told me, "You don't understand." I said, "No, I understand, but you're not paying my mom what she deserves. Let me add it up for you again." I could just see how mad she was at being caught for stealing my mom's wages.

Those are the things that I think, many times, young kids of immigrants who can't speak the language have to do, but then at the same time, they're your parents. You're seeing them in this way of, like this vulnerability, and all of a sudden you feel like, of course they're protecting you and they're taking care of you too, but then you also feel like you’ve got to protect them from this outside world too. It was an interesting way that that relationship develops.

[00:12:06] Host: It opens the door for what you ended up doing with your life and career. I'd love for you to tell us about how you discovered and became involved with CHIRLA.

[00:12:19] Angelica: First of all, CHIRLA started in 1986 during the first amnesty when the Immigration Reform and Control Act passed, when employer sanctions as it was now employers who hired undocumented individuals were supposedly going to be punished, but in the negotiation, those who were against employer sanctions in the negotiation they got legalization for millions of people. Close to 2.7 million people got legalized through that program.

That's about almost 40 years ago, the last legalization program of its kind. People who were able to move from being undocumented to green card holders and many who then later became citizens. That's when CHIRLA started. I remember hearing about CHIRLA on the news, especially in the Spanish language press about CHIRLA is here to help people legalize their status. That time, I was 15 years old. I was in high school. I knew how to use a typewriter. Forget computer because we're still using typewriters.

I was able to help a lot of my family legalize or fill out their paperwork so they could legalize their status, whether it was because they were working in the agricultural industry or because they had been here a particular amount of time that qualified them for amnesty. My family had gotten legalized sometime a little bit before that just because of a class action lawsuit around family petitions that actually qualified us to get our green cards through my brother. That was just a couple of years before.

Now, I was seeing the rest of my family, my uncle, my aunt, the ones that came with us, that brought us actually, that came with us. They were the one who brought us. They were able to legalize their status and I just saw the joy, the relief, the tranquility that everybody… that it was just exhilaration at this idea of now we're legally able to live in this country. That has always stayed in my mind because as I helped so many of my aunts and uncles and cousins and close family members just to see how their life changed after that, was something that was very important.

I also have connected it-- I connected that moment to CHIRLA. Fast forward, I go on to graduate from high school, go on to college, Occidental College. Then there's the uprisings in 1992. I hear about this organization that's working again to make sure that those individuals who were caught up in the uprising, and apparently immigration had come in and brought in buses, that CHIRLA was standing up to make sure these folks were not deported in protesting these actions. There it was again.

I went to the East Coast and while in the East Coast, I also see what was happening around Prop 187. This was like an anti-immigrant ballot initiative that did pass in California, that said that kids couldn't have school, that you had a duty to report undocumented people, and that those people who would help the undocumented would also be criminally fined, and all sorts of things. It was a really difficult time. I come back from the East Coast, I come back and I was actually going to go on to get a masters at Yale University, around international relations and immigration policy.

When I came back, I said, "Well, I have some time before my deferment expires and I could go back to school. I'm going to go volunteer at CHIRLA." In 1995, in April of 1995, I came to CHIRLA to volunteer. One of my volunteer duties was both administrative, but I was also working on the hotline that had been established to listen to a lot of the reports of discrimination from people impacted by Prop 187. I think that's really what set my life course in a different direction which, was to stay. I really felt it was important for me to stay during that time. I let my deferment expire, my volunteer work became employment at CHIRLA. I thought I was only going to be here for an additional year. I've been here since 1995. The organization was doing a lot of work to stand up against Prop 187 but also to ensure now that the people who had legalized in '86 became citizens and people were really motivated to become engaged after they saw that they had to participate in the electoral process in order to combat to stop this kind of propositions.

I saw that happen. I also saw new changes at the federal level around immigration law. Some really punitive changes in 1996, welfare reform that passed also in 1996. In welfare reform, it was about disenrolling legal immigrants from safety net programs. It just really was a moment where I just felt like this is where I needed to be and it was about my family, it was about people like me that looked and also really had the same experience as my own family and my parents and so I stayed. I've been at the organization since that time to the present.

[00:18:04] Host: In 1999, you became the executive director?

[00:18:08] Angelica: Yes. At first, I was the interim director in 1999 as my executive director, my boss, decided to step down. The organization went through a whole search process that just took longer than they expected. I was the interim director-- during the time that I was at CHIRLA, I had been given different responsibilities. I was always very-- and I still like the administrative part of the work. I love the work externally, but I also think the internal work is important of an organization.

I was just given different responsibilities, and one of them was to serve as the interim director until they hired somebody. Again, it took longer, and then when they weren't able to find their candidate, I think they had a candidate who then decided not to take the job after these months-long search. Afterwards, I said, "Well, why don't I just put in for consideration? Why don't I put myself in for consideration considering that it's been these eight, nine months? I think I've kept things afloat." I submitted my own resume, went through the interview process, and then was hired as the executive director in 2000. Obviously, the organization has transformed and changed in so many ways.

[00:19:37] Host: That's what I would love to talk about, how that organization-- I mean, this is pre 9/11 to where we are now in this post-Trump era where a lot has happened with regards to immigration. I'd love for you to talk about how that role has changed and how the organization has grown and evolved in the last two decades.

[00:20:00] Angelica: I think in the late '90s, we make this very strategic decision about directly organizing immigrants themselves in addition to organizing organizations who work with immigrants. We're doing both. I think that was a transformative moment in terms of the course of the organization. Really saying, "We're not just going to advocate for immigrants, we're going to advocate with. We're going to organize the youth, the workers."

From that moment forward, really having immigrants really lead forward the work. I think that's been part of the success of the organization. Also, looking nationally to saying, "Okay, all of this is because people are not able to legalize their status." The legalization, the ability for people to be formally recognized in this country, to have permanent residency and then have a path to citizenship has been fundamental to where we've gone.

At the same time, we said, we can transform California. We can transform systems. This state that was such an anti-immigrant state, the state that launched leaders across the country who were the xenophobic and anti-immigrant, we can do things differently by really catalyzing the political power of our community and then making sure that those who are elected into office represent us, but also respect the immigrant contribution and the immigrant human beings.

That has happened. Through many, many years of work, very persistent work, we were able, year after year, to have gains that sought to restore California back to a place of recognition of the immigrant community. Maybe immigrants were never respected, but certainly in that way, it's like an extraction of labor and extraction of talent, but not necessarily conveying rights to that population. I think what we did year after year after year was pass legislation, pass policies at the state level, at the local level, and that really created additional protection.

First, mobilizing in the streets to protest conditions and unfair practices, mobilizing to city halls and our state capital to change policies, and then also mobilizing to Washington, DC to speak of the injustice. I also think the most important thing is, or maybe one of the critical things, was also mobilizing at the polls, and really organizing the power of the immigrant family to then participate and create real power, but then force elected officials to act in a different way.

That's where we're at now. The other thing is that the organization was founded in Los Angeles, but we've been part of forming a national coalition, so our sister coalition, very similar to CHIRLA. When I started, there were five immigrant rights coalitions in the country. We now have over 40 immigrant rights coalitions that are in similar structure, similar way across the country. Also at the state of California, CHIRLA is an organization that is not just LA-based, but we're most in every major county in California. Again, the thing that never changes is us working directly with immigrant workers, immigrant youth, and immigrant families to guide the agenda of the organization.

[00:23:48] Host: I'd love to just-- I know we were running out of time and I have a lot more I'd love to talk about. I know this may be a basic question, but I'd love for you to talk about the differences between these terms, refugee, asylum seeker, and migrant.

[00:24:11] Angelica: To me, it's-- First and foremost, everybody is a migrant. It's really how you are recognized in international or domestic law. Really, refugee and asylum seeker, immigrant, to me, or migrant which is what-- to me, those are government definitions, but they're very specific. A refugee is somebody who, based on their situation in their home country, is considered an individual who cannot return to their home country because of violence, persecution as human beings, and they cannot return. Therefore, they need refuge in another country. They've been displaced from their home. They've been forced to leave.

Refugee is basically a term that's given to people who then seek the status outside of the United States and then from wherever they're given that status, are then entered into the United States or any other country. They are considered, prior to their entry into their new home, they are given a refugee status. The asylum seeker has to meet the same conditions that a refugee needs to meet, the persecution, fear of life because of their social group, et cetera. The difference between an asylum seeker is that they were not given refugee status anywhere, but they showed up at a point of entry in another country, and they meet the same conditions. They have to pass credible fear interviews.

Now what they have done is they have arrived directly at the border, and so therefore, they are allowed to enter the country, but now they will now be asylum seekers internally. It's the how you enter the United States. Both a refugee, they go through the entire process outside the United States as asylum seeker. If the United States is their destination, an asylum seeker is doing the same processing that a refugee would do but inside the United States. It is obviously not guaranteed. Just because you're allowed to come into the country does not mean that you will finally be given that protection. Refugees also have different levels of support than asylum seekers. That's something we're trying to correct here in the state of California to say, just because you showed up at a border, you're meeting the same conditions, you could possibly not-- you arrived at the borders because you could not do anything else but seek safety. That's the difference.

Then there's this whole thing about everybody else who enters into the United States. They're not seeking asylum. Many times they are seeking protection and also better opportunity because they cannot survive in their home country for economic reasons. Our perspective is they too are forced from their home. Many times when you think about-- They arrive at a point of entry, they're not going to be allowed to come in as asylum seekers, but they desperately need to survive. Their survival then for many times forces them to enter into countries in a irregular fashion without inspection, without going through this process. Those individuals become undocumented immigrants. For us, the way CHIRLA operates is, it doesn't matter what status the United States will give you. At the end of the day, you have been forced to leave your home country, enter into a new country, and then have to seek to survive. Refugees, asylum seekers have different support levels than obviously somebody who's undocumented.

We believe everybody deserves the ability to live and to thrive in their new home. That's what CHIRLA is about, to advance the human, the civil rights of immigrants and refugees, but also to create a just society in which they're included. Being part of creating, transforming systems in the United States so that we're all seen and treated as human beings, but also that we're included in these processes. Many times, immigrants are not included in certain safety net programs and opportunities for education. Creating that opportunity and that inclusivity is part of our work.

[00:29:07] Host: We want to thank Angelica Salas and everyone at CHIRLA. For more information, visit chirla.org. Chapters podcast was produced by Past Forward and made possible with support from Chapman University and California Civil Liberties Public Education Program, a state funded grant project of the California State Library. For more information, visit pastforward.org, chapman.edu, and library.ca.gov.