According to media, characters and stories about people who were like me didn't exist, they didn't have a room for them. I was like, "In order to be able to publish books, I have to make it White and I have to make it accessible in that way." When it came time to pitch my option book after we had gone through editing Lost in the Never Woods, and then all of a sudden it's like copy-edits time, the very last stage, I started pitching my option books to my editor and one of them was Cemetery Boys and it was the very last thing in my email. I put like five different ideas.

The first story I was like, "I've already written 50,000 words. Here's the full synopsis and a chapter breakdown." It's funny because as you're in that email, the more you read the ideas got more and more vague. Cemetery Boys was my very last idea listed. It was just a paragraph long and most of the sentences ended in question marks because what I realized after the fact is I was asking permission to write a story about a character that was like me.

I was like, "I don't know. Maybe he's queer and that's something we could talk about. Wouldn't it be wild if he was also Mexican and Cuban like I am? If we really wanted to go off the rails, maybe we could make him trans," fully thinking that this was not the story my editor was going to pick up. Then I remember I sent these pitch ideas to my editor at five o'clock West Coast time on a Friday thinking, I was like, "It is bedtime over on the East Coast. This is a problem for Monday Aiden. I don't have to stress about it." Then I think two or three hours later I got an email back from my editor and she was like, "I want Cemetery Boys."

I was absolutely floored and blown away because, again, I had had it so reinforced to me that these are not stories that should be told or that have space or that anyone even wants. The fact that I had this editor who was like, "I want that story," it literally changed my life. [laughs]

[00:04:58] Host: Were you scared at that moment?

[00:05:00] Aiden: I was so scared. I was terrified and I was like, "Oh, my God." When I found out that she wanted it, I was like, "Oh, my God, now I have to actually do this." I was so worried about doing it wrong or even though I am queer and I am Latinx and I am also trans, I am fully aware that we have our own internalized -isms, whether it's transphobia or homophobia that can end up on the page without me meaning to or even realizing it.

I was really scared of just doing the wrong thing, which is why once I had a draft ready, it was super important, it was critical even I would say, that I had sensitivity and authenticity readers read Cemetery Boys even though they're-- I'm like, "I need someone who's trans, Latinx and queer." Even though it's identities that I have and that I have grown my whole life with, I wanted to make sure that I was not messing up. That was a really, really important thing for me. Yes, I was very scared. I just wanted to make sure, I wanted to do it right.

[00:06:08] Host: It's interesting with Lost in the Never Woods, like this idea of not being able to write your story. There's this almost like a Catch-22 where you have to write for the audience that exists because we don't know if there's this other audience that will respond because there aren't books written for that audience so it just keeps spinning out.

[00:06:30] Aiden: Yes. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy almost.

[00:06:34] Host: When you were growing up, when you would read or you'd watch TV or you'd watch movies, what characters did you identify with? What did you grab onto and say like, "Oh, I can relate," or--

[00:06:48] Aiden: It's so funny because I was an incredibly reluctant reader when I was a kid and I don't think I actually read a full book until I was in sixth grade and it was Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones. It's like once I found out that I could write, that fantasy books existed, and that they could also be funny, I was like, "Why has my mom been pushing all these problem novels on me that I've been so bored to death with?" I think that that still really reflects who I am as an author today because I have these heavier topics, especially like Cemetery Boys.

If I was a 16-year-old and you handed me a book and you were like, "Here's a book about a trans boy who is fighting for his identity and his family doesn't understand him," I'd be like, "No thanks. [laughs] I'm good." That does not sound like a fun time to me but if you were like there's a cute ghost and someone steals a car, and stuff like that, once you bring in the magic and excitement of it, suddenly, it is a lot easier and more accessible for young readers to tackle those heavy subjects. When we have the fantasy to be able to reassure us and also to have a joke in the middle of a really intense scene or a conversation to ease that tension and really help you be able to access these parts of yourself and your thoughts and your feelings that sometimes you want to shy away from, that's always been really important to me as a reader.

As I was getting older, truly the book that changed my life was Labyrinth Lost by Zoraida Cordova and that is a newer book. That one came out, I'm not sure when, definitely after 2010 and I read it right before I started drafting Cemetery Boys. I was like, "Oh, my gosh," because it's this whole magic system in this world of Latinx witches or brujas. I was like, "Oh, my God, we're allowed to write about this." I was like, "I had no idea." Reading that series, the Brooklyn Brujas series, was totally life-changing for me not only as a reader but as a writer and being like, "Oh, we can actually do these stories."

I get that question a lot, when's the first time you really saw yourself represented in media? The truth is the closest I got was Zoraida Cordova's books and then after that it was Cemetery Boys because there truly wasn't any kind of media that represented me that I felt like I could be like, "Oh, yes, this is something I totally relate to." It's always like bits and pieces and not like the whole--

[00:09:22] Host: -ish. Yes.

[00:09:23] Aiden: Yes, -ish. Totally.

[00:09:23] Host: This is me-ish.

[00:09:24] Aiden: Exactly.

[00:09:25] Host: What was that experience? Obviously, you wrote it, but then what was the experience of having Cemetery Boys reflect you, all these facets of you, and then having to be successful?

[00:09:37] Aiden: I was in shock, honestly. I truly thought when I was like talking to my publishing team and I was like, "Oh, I want to do a pre-order campaign. How much stuff should I buy?" They're like, "Usually, we get 25 pre-orders." I was like, "Cool." In my brain, I was like, "I'm going to sell 25 books." If I do that and just one of those readers is like, "I felt seen, I felt connected, I was able to understand a part of myself or celebrate a part of myself that I've never been able to," then I would have done my job. By the time Cemetery Boys published, I had over 3,000 pre-orders alone--

[00:10:13] Host: Wow.

[00:10:14] Aiden: -yes, which is an obscene amount. Very quickly, I was like, "Oh, this is going to be a bit bigger than I thought it was," but the whole time I was just doubting myself and I was like, "Maybe this is a fluke." Meanwhile, my publisher and my agent are talking to me and they're like, "Oh, my God, Aiden might pull this off. Aiden might list," but everyone was like, "Don't say anything to Aiden. It'll freak him out," which it would've totally.

Then it ended up me just moving through publishing and being like, "Oh, I have my first book out, isn't this exciting?" Then a week later after pub finding out that it hit the Indie list and the New York Times best seller list, I was floored. I was absolutely floored and in shock. I never saw it coming. I am so thankful and appreciative of literally every opportunity that I've been given, any kind of accolade or anything like that. I am just so happy to be here, so appreciative of that.

[00:11:06] Host: It does because it validates you as a writer but it also validates you and all of these things that you are because you put them in the book.

[00:11:16] Aiden: Yes, and it's totally wild. I think the best part about being in the position that I am is that I get to connect with readers on this really deeply personal level, on a level where many of them have never been understood by anyone else, especially in their home life, especially people that are physically closest to them like their families. Oftentimes when you're a queer person, especially when you're a marginalized person, the people that you connect with have very little to do with proximity. These are people that you find online.

The first time I saw a trans person was on YouTube and I felt like, I was like, "Oh, this person understands me and I connect to this person," and they have no idea who I am. I was too scared to comment on any of their videos. They had no idea I even existed but they were so, so important to me. To be able to create a book and have these characters, where they are so important to these young adults without me even knowing that they exist, without me even knowing their names, that is such a responsibility that I take so very seriously and I really honor and I'm exceptionally humbled by, and it's just the wildest thing.

I've had people email me or message me and be like, "This was the first time I saw myself represented." I'm like, "Hey, same," or like, "This book helped me realize that I'm queer or that I'm trans." I've had four people that I know of who, coming into their gender identity, chose a name from a character that's in my book. That is something that is so just absolutely wild and I feel so honored to be part of that, settling into their identity. It's truly mind-blowing. It's amazing. [chuckles]

[00:13:06] Host: I mentioned before when we started our conversation, I definitely can see myself as Enrique, Yadriel's father, where I'm still learning. I think that that line was such a beautiful line. It came fairly early in their relationship story, but I am still learning or unlearning. When I read through your book, I initially thought that you had coined the phrase brujx.

[00:13:32] Aiden: Oh, yes. [laughs]

[00:13:34] Host: Then I went and did research and then realized you just popularized it, and probably, are the one who made it the most popular. I'd love for you to talk about your research into this brujx world and how much you knew before going into the writing and then how much you learned in the development.

[00:13:54] Aiden: It's so funny because whenever I talk about Cemetery Boys and the magic system that it's in, I feel like I cheated. That's because the magic system within Cemetery Boys, it's the cultural practices that I have grown up with. I'm not researching it because I live it. The research that really came in was the origins, and understanding why do we have these weird little rituals that we do, and figuring out where those things and those practices and those superstitions even, where those came from. That was where a lot of the big research came in.

From there it was just very much, I feel like I got to show off my culture really. It's so vibrant and beautiful that it was so much fun to be able to share my favorite parts of my culture with readers and to build a magic system around it because I just take our beliefs and gave them a very literal output. For example, with Marigolds, we believe that their scents and their brightness is what helps lead the spirits of our loved ones back to the lands of living for two days. In the book, I was just like, "Yes, the Marigolds, here they are and here come the spirits." [chuckles]

It was really just getting to brag about my culture and share all these things that we believe and things that we do in a very open way. That's always been really fun. The research really came into being like, "Okay, so why is it like this? Where does this actually come from?" Which was fun to learn because I truly didn't know. I was just like, "Yes, that's just how it is." [chuckles]

[00:15:37] Host: It seems even in these brujx traditions and beliefs that Catholicism plays a big role. Even you have Santa Muerte, which is Saint Death, and using the rosaries as portaje--

[00:15:55] Aiden: Yes. You did great. Yes, that was exactly it.

[laughter]

[00:15:58] Host: Here's one of my rambling thoughts. I have a few thoughts as I was reading, like a realization. Thinking about Yadriel's need to prove himself to be accepted as a boy and as a brujo, I was thinking about how-- In your story, you talk about how the brujx traditions predate colonialism into the Mayan beliefs where you have Bahlam, the Jaguar God, you have Xibalba-

[00:16:33] Aiden: Yes, you did great.

[00:16:34] Host: -which is the underworld. Then I started thinking about how a lot of Native American traditions had this idea of two-spirit or that third gender. I would wonder if that existed in those Mayan traditions. Then I bring it back to, even we have Julian say, at one point, in the hundreds of years of brujos, that there had to have been a trans brujx. Then I think, was it the colonialism and that western, that Catholicism, and that's what closed the door on openness and understanding. Those were thoughts I had. I don't know what your thoughts are, but I guess it leads into how this central, and south, and Mexican culture view this two-spirit, this third gender, this other or, really, the LGBTQ+ community in general.

[00:17:39] Aiden: The wild thing is that before colonialism, a lot of cultures were a lot more queer and that is just almost a universal truth. You'll see that across the world. It's not even specific to the Americas. When I was writing Cemetery Boys, I wanted it to be an accurate depiction of my contemporary Mexican culture, which is a very colonized culture. Even in Mexico, our main language is Spanish, which is a colonizer language. It's wild when people get so defensive of using the term brujx or Latinx because they're like, "You're ruining our language." I was like, "It's not even our language to begin with." Let's unpack that first.

For me, because Catholicism and colonialism has such a huge impact on Mexican contemporary culture, especially Mexican Americans, I wanted that to still be reflected in the story and to try to look at how complex that relationship is. For me, I wanted to be honoring our very long past ancestors while also respecting our current and contemporary relationship to our culture, including the influences that have gone along. Even just the use of saints is huge in my culture.

For me, it was like, when I'm incorporating this, I don't see it so much as a religion, which I know sounds so silly when it has such strong Catholic vibes to it but when I think of saints or even like Santa Muerte, the way that I think about them is like, "Yes, these are deities that are important to me and my culture and I believe that every culture has their own deities that look out for their people."

For me, I was like, "Yes, this is my community, but my Latinx community," because when I was growing up in Oakland, California, that's what my community was. It wasn't just the Mexicans only hung out with the Mexicans and only the Cubans hung out with the Cubans. We're this huge community that comes together. I really wanted to make sure that I was having space for all of those identities that are within the Latinx community. Yes, it's really complex. [laughs]

I get to write a sequel to Cemetery Boys, which I'm very excited about. For me, part of that what I wanted to touch base on is that colonization and how we think about who our ancestors were and how we connect to them, especially when it comes to things that have been taken away from us like our queerness, I would even say. It's a lot to unpack and it's a lot to cover. I definitely did not get to everything that I wanted to touch base on in Cemetery Boys, but I only had 400 pages. I'm hoping I could do a little bit more of a deep dive in the sequel. I'm excited for that.

[00:20:36] Host: Again, I want to touch on some things that I had, like, "Oh," or-- Really, I learned through reading your book or just thought like, "Wow, I didn't think of it that way." Like you mentioned the term brujx, Latinx, that there is this backlash about changing the Spanish language, but you have this line, "navigating pronouns was a minefield when language is based on gender". It's something that as an English speaker with just a little bit of Spanish, I would never even think about.

[00:21:11] Aiden: It's just true. That's what makes it so much more difficult, especially for people who identify more as non-binary than to either of the binary pronouns and what it means to be fielding that and working on it. For me, a really important part when I was writing this story, was that I got the family dynamics right. Typically, usually, up until this point before I started writing Cemetery Boys when you had a story that was about a trans character, the family had one of these very two extreme reactions, either they were, suddenly, in the snap of the fingers, the perfect allies, who knew exactly what to do with their trans kid and how to support them, or they completely rejected the kid and the kid gets kicked out.

For me, my personal experience, and what I was seeing around me is that it's much more complicated than that, and somewhere more in the middle, where Yadz's family, it's not that they hate him for being trans, it's that they just don't understand him. Isn't that frustrating because you know that your family doesn't hate you because of your identity, but they also don't understand which can lead to people avoiding you or being like, "Well, I'm just trying to get a hang of it. I'm still learning."

A really important moment for me within writing that book, obviously, Enrique's character was really important. For me, I wanted his journey to be more focused on like-- Yes, he's not being the perfect dad right now but it's just because he doesn't know how to be. It's not that he hates Yadz or is doing this on purpose. It's because he doesn't know how to do it the right way. When I was writing the story, I wanted to have examples of the right thing to do and when you do the wrong thing, how that impacts a trans person, especially someone that you love and care about.

A big moment in the book for me, is that the very beginning, that's probably like the second chapter where Lita accidentally deadnames Yadriel and then continues to misgender him in kind of the same breath. For me, the deadname didn't matter. I don't write his deadname. I don't even know what Yadz's deadname is because that doesn't matter. In that moment, what mattered was Yadriel's hurt and feelings and reaction to it.

That reaction is usually something that not a lot of people see, especially family members because trans folks, when we see that someone is at least attempting, we want to encourage that, and we get scared to correct because what if we're like, "No, that's not my name. That's not my pronoun." Then suddenly the family member's like, "You know what, I give up. I tried." It's this really tough area to be living and existing in and how do you navigate that?

For me, with writing that scene, what I wanted was to have parents and family members who have trans folks in their lives to be like, "Yes, you think that this is a small slip up, but that small slip up on your end, this is how it feels and this is the damage that it's doing. This is the fear that your trans loved one has in order to even confront you about it." It's so complex and there's so many facets to it, that I wanted to have these multiple examples of the right thing, the wrong thing, the kind of you're trying to do right`, but it's still wrong.

[chuckles]

[00:24:35] Host: There were a few moments where characters were seeking help. The idea was floated to go to the police and was immediately dismissed. It was something that I can understand the aggression and the apathy that police offer to communities of color or immigrant communities but the one thing that I had like, "Oh, I didn't even think about that," was the fear of the undocumented. Not going to seek help, not only just from the police but from anyone, for fear of deportation. That's intense when you're in a country and you can't even ask for help.

[00:25:22] Aiden: Exactly. That's how a lot of really horrible things go into the radar. It's more than just someone, a big thing like someone who's missing. It can be smaller but just as extreme things like even domestic abuse and stuff like that. It's like our people, we don't have the safety to be even able to reach out to the people who are supposed to protect us because we have been so vilified as immigrants, especially ones that are undocumented. It really puts my people in a horrible position of choosing safety over having to go back to a country that is incredibly dangerous to them. It's really a picking and choosing of the lesser of the evils.

That was a really important thing for me to acknowledge because, just like you said, I think it's something that a lot of people don't even think about or acknowledge because it's so easy to just be like, "Why didn't you call the cops?" It's like, "Well, because I risk getting kicked out of my home. That's why." [chuckles] For me, that was an important part to bring in and acknowledge.

[00:26:24] Host: Then there was another thing near the end where I was reading and it was another like, "Oh, I don't even think about that," but this mass appropriation of Calavera in some western culture.

[00:26:34] Aiden: Oh, yes. [chuckles]

[00:26:36] Host: A lot of Westerners or White Americans love the beauty and pageantry of Día de los Muertosand adopt it without ever thinking about the importance of that holiday.

[00:26:58] Aiden: Totally.

[00:27:00] Host: You see people dress up with the candy skull makeup and just have no clue what they're doing. That was definitely an “aha” moment reading like, "Oh [crosstalk]"

[00:27:11] Aiden: It's funny too because I definitely wanted to touch base on it and Yadriel-- The thing is that some Mexican folk really don't mind. We're like, "Yes, join the party. This is a good thing," but to others, it's a sacred thing and especially--

The biggest issue with it is that if you're going to like our culture, if you want to celebrate or be interested in it, be interested in us as people as well not just this costume that you like, to be invested in us, be supportive of us. It's like you want to be able to have the Latinx aesthetic, but you don't want to be a Latinx experience, especially being in America. It's like you need to be cognizant of both. We would love to welcome you to the party, but you need to understand and support us when we need help.

[00:28:07] Host: It's not just Cinco de Mayo and Día de los Muertos. This is every day.

[00:28:13] Aiden: Exactly. Yadz is one of the people who are like, "No, don't touch it because you don't know what you're doing." There's also a lot of people, a lot of my friends and family and even I take a more lax view on it. In general, we want to bring people into the party. We are about creating community but we don't like being used just for our aesthetic. If you want to be invested in us, be invested in us as a community and as a people.

[00:28:42] Host: Then, this concept of these throwaway kids. Julian and Julian's friends who all fall in the world of LGBTQ+ but also are from Latinx or immigrant families who have that double whammy of being marginalized and have nowhere to call home, is that something that is more common to see those, I don't want to call them throwaway kids, but that's what it feels like without home without school support without anyone looking out for them.

[00:29:28] Aiden: Yes. Those are disproportionately queer in communities of color. It's so complicated because of their marginalization they are just in a more vulnerable position. Like for Omar, his parents were deported but he has American residency, so he's being looked after. One of them has abusive parents who don't care for taking care of him. It's this importance of found family, which is, I would say, critical within the queer community because even though our families are the ones who are maybe rejecting us, and not taking care of us, we seek out people who love us for who we are and who respect us, and who will take care of us. Those found families are just as important as the blood families.

When I was writing Cemetery Boys, I really wanted to show both. I wanted to show a blood family that's maybe not as supportive as you would like it to be, and a found family that has everything that you could possibly want, and people who love and celebrate you for exactly who you are. For me, it was really important to kind of show that dichotomy and to show that Julian's family is just as valid as Yadriel's family and is even maybe more loving and understanding than Yadz's blood family. What does that mean? It means that community above all else is the most important thing.

[00:30:59] Host: We're going to finish with-- This has been my eyeroll question but I think it is important because of where we are and where we are as a country in this day and age. What does the term American dream mean to you and then what is your American dream?

[00:31:24] Aiden: To me, the American dream is all about finding safety and about finding love. The American dream is about not being able to be afraid and to be able to find a place that's yours and that you feel that you belong in. I think that that is what everyone, regardless of race, gender, ethnic identity, that is what we are all looking for. For me, it's the same thing. It's what I'm trying to create with writing these stories as I'm trying to create those communities, those safe communities where we feel loved and respected and seen for exactly who we are despite everything else. That's what I think the American dream is. [chuckles]

[00:32:06] Host: If you would like to continue the conversation, visit chapman.edu/wilkinson to hear all of the lectures from this series. To access recommended books from our guests for further learning and for more socially conscious content, visit us at pastforward.org, or follow us at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you podcast.