In this episode we connect with artist Kristi Lippire. We discuss her solo exhibit, Stepanova Project: Color is Form, inspired by her artist residency at Fabrika Projekt at the Center for Creative Industries in Moscow, Russia, and by the Russian Constructivist artist Varvara Stepanova. We talk about her time in Moscow and the dichotomy between our two cultures and urban experiences. We explore the work of Varvara Stepanova and her fellow Constructivist artists and the beliefs they had of art as utilitarian pieces for the people. We also go over the multi-country journey her artwork made to open a show in a country at war.
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Guest
Kristi Lippire is a Los Angeles–based sculptor and professor whose work investigates the intersections of material culture, urban infrastructure, and visual theory. A specialist in color theory, she conducts long-form research into the social, historical, and perceptual structures that shape the built environment. Her practice often draws on archives, photography, and site-specific observation, translating architectural elements into sculptural, textile, and graphic forms that reframe their cultural and political resonance. Lippire’s projects engage with histories of modernism, feminist interventions in design, and the role of ornament and color in shaping spatial experience. She has exhibited nationally and internationally, with works featured in museums, galleries, and public art contexts. In addition to her studio practice, Lippire is committed to teaching and mentorship, fostering critical engagement with materials, processes, and the social dimensions of artmaking in her role as professor and mentor.
"You didn't have power. You didn't have fire and you didn't have food. And so you burned everything you owned. And so these artists, if you made any sculpture out of wood, you burned it. You burned all your furniture. You burned all your paper. So this stuff, really what we have left should be commemorated..."
Credits
Engaging the World: Leading the Conversation on the Environment and Building Resilient Futures is a series that explores how natural, social, and political climates both shape and are changed by institutions and social structures. We engage with artists, educators, activists and authors to examine where we live and how we live in our surrounding environment and what it takes to build a resilient future.
Guest: Kristi Lippire
Host: Jon-Barrett Ingels
Produced by Past Forward in partnership with Wilkinson College of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences at Chapman University.
Date recorded: November 5, 2025
Past Forward is providing this podcast as a public service. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please read our Program and Product Disclaimer for more information.
Transcription
[00:00:02] Kristi Lippire: I mean, I just don't feel like we dream that way anymore, that are like dreams or fantasies of these kinds of like, what is the most outrageous thing you can come up with, that is also beneficial that isn't about withholding information, but sharing it and giving things away, make it accessible, but also cool and interesting and like innovative, like in a way they were technology before technology even happened, right, because they are already thinking about this stuff, but not for themselves.
[00:00:34] Host: Chapman University's Wilkinson College of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences and Past Forward present Engaging the World: Leading the Conversation on the Environment and Building Resilient Futures. In this series, we explore how natural, social, and political climates shape and are changed by institutions and social structures. We engage with artists, educators, activists, and authors to examine where we live and how we live in our surrounding environment and what it takes to build a resilient future.
In this episode, we connect with artist Kristi Lippire to discuss her solo exhibit, Stepanova Project: Color is Form, inspired by her artist residency at Fabrika Projekt at the Center for Creative Industries in Moscow, Russia, and by the Russian Constructivist artist Varvara Stepanova. Here is Kristi Lapierre.
So Kristi, let's start by talking about your residency at Fabrika, the Center for Creative Industries in Moscow. And I'd love to kind of first give a little history on what Fabrika is.
[00:01:44] Lippire: It was a Soviet-era paper factory and it wasn't even just a paper factory like end to end. It was one part of a process. So just the scale of these spaces are enormous. I mean, this factory is like six stories high. One building, the tallest building is compiled of like six or seven buildings and they don't tear anything down, they repurpose everything. So all these Soviet-era giant structures are still there and they're just broken up into little businesses, which is interesting. So like the tile is of the era, like everything. I did a video of me walking back to my apartment just because it's such a weird experience to go through this weird factory in this maze and go up all these stairs and finally find my apartment. And so I did a video and everybody was like, this is scary. I was like, well, I'm deep in a warehouse space. So I don't know. It's just kind of not familiar for us. That's all. Yeah.
[00:02:53] Host: How was it? When was it turned into the Center for Creative Industries? Like when did take it over?
[00:03:00] Lippire: Early 2000s. Yeah. And I think it's just been kind of expanding ever since. So while I was there, they just opened up like a nightclub. It was so cool. Like a really hip, cool, like it was like a bar of just like a, just a beer bar. And then there was this huge space with two, like a mezzanine level above for people to just play music. And when I went, it was just like these young girls with their laptops and then like dancing around and singing and like all the music was of course digital. But it was so cool. And then like just like a really young, youthful vibe. But again, in this factory complex kind of, it's interesting.
[00:03:43] Host: So the Center, they have shows or exhibits, there's production elements for creating spaces for creating, but they also have these international residencies as well. How did you first find out about the residency?
[00:04:01] Lippire: I had a friend who saw a solo show I did in LA in 2015 and we were talking about it and I revealed that I was really into Russian constructivism and art movement of the 1920s, 1930s, mid 1930s. And she's like, Oh, you should do this residency. And she happened to do it. I don't even know how she did it. She did it maybe 2007. So much earlier than I, and her experience was way, way different. Like the residency was fine, but the city of Moscow itself was a little rougher, I guess. She saw a lot of very crazy things, a lot more public drunkenness, like just, you know, and we're talking about like selling bottles of vodka, you could just open and drink on the street, like very intoxicated. So I did not have any of that experience. It was all really great. She still liked it, you know, it was just like kind of like things to look out for. But yeah, it was, so she told me about it. And then I just reached out personally and just searched online and kind of inquired and said I was interested and started that application process.
[00:05:14] Host: You started the residency in 2019?
[00:05:17] Lippire: Yeah, I did. Just one month, I think you can do up to three. And so they have two apartments for international artists, one that rotates by country and one that's just Austria, because Austria, I guess, has some partnership where they guarantee an artist so that the Fabrika is already always guaranteed that because you're paying to stay there. They're guaranteed that income and they stay for three months, which, you know, as an American, that's just like kind of asking a lot. I mean, we just don't have that kind of time. And these Austrians were so like, you can't learn anything. You've only been here for one month. You don't even know. And I was just like, OK, you know what? I'm so sorry, but I'm not subsidized by the government. Like, she just went to artist residencies like every three months. She rotated and lived somewhere else. And I was like, wow.
"...I had a Canadian artist friend who was like, you know, in Canada, it's great because we're paid to be artists. And so we don't have that stress. He's like, but because we don't have that stress, we don't have that hustle, that drive, that energy that U.S. artists have because of the whole system of capitalism and everything."
[00:06:17] Host: So how do we become Austrian citizens? Because that sounds incredible.
[00:06:21] Lippire: I know. I mean, it's just similar to Canada. And it's funny because I had a Canadian artist friend who was like, you know, in Canada, it's great because we're paid to be artists. And so we don't have that stress. He's like, but because we don't have that stress, we don't have that hustle, that drive, that energy that U.S. artists have because of the whole system of capitalism and everything. And so it's he misses the energy that which for us is exhausting. After a while, you're just like, oh, can I just can someone just like something?
[00:06:57] Host: Yeah, and not in the social media thumbs up, like in the financial like.
[00:07:03] Lippire: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:04] Host: So was your mission always to kind of go and explore Constructivist work and Stepanova's when you went for the month?
[00:07:14] Lippire: Yes. So that was the proposal I wanted to see. So the Russian pronunciation and this is something for me in Stepanova. Stepanova, of course. Different accent is different emphasis. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I did want to in what's very interesting there.
"So these Constructivists were, you know, the rebels. They wanted the revolution. They were Leninists that, you know. So this would not be something that contemporary Russia would support. Right? Something overthrowing the current government."
[00:07:35] Host: And by the way, Stepanova sounds way more Russian than Stepanova.
[00:07:40] Lippire: That sounds like Stepanova is like, well, she's Lithuanian, too. I mean, it's all like, you know, part of that big expanse of what was the Soviet Union. Right. But they're clawing back slowly. So, yeah, it was it was interesting. So these Constructivists were, you know, the rebels. They wanted the revolution. They were Leninists that, you know. So this would not be something that contemporary Russia would support. Right? Something overthrowing the current government. At that time, it was a czar system. Right. But so there's no museums that are Constructivist museums there, which is just fascinating to me. Like, here's your huge impact on the global art world. And there's not anything that really honors that history. Could care less. The constructivists in the 30s got hired by Stalin to do all this propaganda work and poster design. And so they went really heavy into graphics and did all this like photo book stuff, just beautiful, unbelievably progressive stuff that we're still using in our graphic design today. Highly influential and nothing, nothing. These don't even exist anymore. The originals don't even exist. I made an appointment to go to the Pushkin Museum and see their collection of her work that they had access to because they were doing all this construction. And so he had a pool like these nine pieces for me. And I'm looking at their most famous, her and her husband, Aleksander Rodchenko, who's more, way more famous. But they collaborated a lot. He did this poster advertising. It was a literacy campaign. And it's really famous, just a woman's face, like a babushka, but young, with a scarf around her head. And it's got this triangle coming out of her mouth. This becomes like what everybody uses now.
"With the World War II and that horrible winter of 1940, 1941, where like the Germans surrounded St. Petersburg and really starved out a lot of Russians, you didn't have electricity. You didn't have power. You didn't have fire and you didn't have food. And so you burned everything you owned. And so these artists, if you made any sculpture out of wood, you burned it. You burned all your furniture. You burned all your paper. So this stuff, really what we have left should be commemorated..."
[00:09:46] Host: Iconic, yeah.
[00:09:47] Lippire: Super iconic. And it said to read, it said, “Read” really loud and all this stuff. Right. And I'm looking at this and I was like, well, this is handmade, like it's cut. You can see it's cut and all this stuff. And the curator's like, yeah, but it's not original. And he's like, you need to just let go of that word. There's no original. There's nothing left. With the World War II and that horrible winter of 1940, 1941, where like the Germans surrounded St. Petersburg and really starved out a lot of Russians, you didn't have electricity. You didn't have power. You didn't have fire and you didn't have food. And so you burned everything you owned. And so these artists, if you made any sculpture out of wood, you burned it. You burned all your furniture. You burned all your paper. So this stuff, really what we have left should be commemorated, just, just because it was such a difficult and insane time for them. So many millions of people died in that one winter alone, just freezing to death. So, yeah, it was he's like, this is made by the daughter, like that's as close as we can get, but it would never occur to them to keep a copy, an artist proof like we would if we were printmaking in a print house or something. It just they were, you know, it was utopian design for the people. They were, you know, they were sharing and trying to make the community better.
[00:11:18] Host: Yeah, I love I mean, you're going into exactly where I wanted to take you into this explanation of of this style and this movement, but let's I want to kind of go a little deeper into the constructivist style. There was definitely an element of precision and almost mathematics and geometry, like everything felt, you know, there was no kind of free form, wavy lines, everything had its place and everything had its its purpose.
[00:11:56] Lippire: Right. I think that's where it separates itself from like Cubism. There's a lot of you can see the influence of Cubism in a lot of their stuff, and they became way less, you know, brushstroke and that movement of planes, everything's in motion and much more about the factory. And so that everything kind of references the mechanical and that ideally that love for the mechanical, their idea was everything that is made mass produced. And it's such an industrious society over there, it should be beautiful, it should be well designed, it shouldn't have like frivolous aesthetics. It wasn't about frivolous aesthetics. It was about how much you can put into something that gives out as much. Right. So like the big Tatlin Tower, ideal one, this is the spiral mountain that comes up that was supposed to house like three branches of government in each building rotates a different speed and each building was a different shape. It was more metal in this fantasy than all of Russia had. But the... and it would project. Oh, let us not forget it would project the news of the day on the sky at night. I mean, it's just crazy. And like just I mean, I just don't feel like we dream that way anymore. There are like dreams or fantasies of these kinds of like, what is the most outrageous thing you can come up with that is also beneficial that isn't about withholding information, but sharing it and giving things away, make it accessible, but also cool and interesting and like innovative, like in a way they were technology before technology even happened. Right. Because they're already thinking about this stuff, but not for themselves. Yeah.
"And then getting back to the Productivist, their big quote was “art as life,” like art, it's a life, like it shouldn't be in a gallery or all that. It should be accessible. I mean, they were really designers and they kind of flipped in all these kind of commercial and non-commercial spaces, but they just wanted really elegant design."
[00:13:55] Host: When there's also this element of art as utilitarian as well, like our art is going to have a use and a purpose or I guess they call it Productivist, this, you know, whether it's Stepanova's clothing or, you know, they were making things that were furniture as well, correct? I mean, I'm not an art scholar. This is all just what I've been able to glean.
[00:14:27] Lippire: Yeah. She did set designs and they weren't even just regular set designs. Of course, got to be innovative, right? So it was set designs that also, I mean, really thoughtful about the play, obviously, but in a way that was so avant-garde, like the parts moved. So like the actors not only had, were wearing these costumes that she designed that were very, again, factory friendly. And then these machined, you know, they looked at the set designs were kind of like machines that you also, that also moved and had moving parts and parts of it would collapse and then would come back. And I mean, just next level stuff with bare minimum. I mean, 1930s Russia, right in between the wars, there's just not a lot. And so it is just amazing what they were able to accomplish. You know, even Tatlin's Tower has never happened. The model was destroyed. It's just this, it lives on as a legacy, as a, as a legend, as something that's so aspirational. It would have been like four times as much steel as the Eiffel tower. I mean, they were really trying and believed that they were a culture that could compete globally, at least with their ideas, you know, maybe they didn't have the resources, but you know, we also have amazing ideas that can benefit a culture, you know, that was kind of their idea. And then getting back to the Productivist, their big quote was “art as life,” like art, it's a life, like it shouldn't be in a gallery or all that. It should be accessible. I mean, they were really designers and they kind of flipped in all these kind of commercial and non-commercial spaces, but they just wanted really elegant design.
[00:16:25] Host: And then for, uh, Varvara, uh, she was at the forefront of this art movement. But what did that mean for her to be a woman in that role and embraced by the early onset of the Soviet Union?
[00:16:40] Lippire: I mean, how awesome, how awesome. Um, she was well-respected. She was a founding member. Um, she had a best friend Popova and Popova and her, they were, you know, the two main, two main women, Popova was a painter and they were the only actual Constructivist that fulfilled the mission of Constructivism, which was to actually design and work in a factory, producing your designs and putting them out there. So full circle, like knew what it was all like. They were the only two that actually worked in a textile, uh, factory that designed the textiles and printed them. So they really knew what was going on. Unfortunately, Popova died at like age 36 from cancer, really young. So, um, she's mostly known for her paintings.
"...I mean, it'd be so sad to go to Moscow and just sit in your studio and make work. You're not really being influenced by the culture."
[00:17:34] Host: Now let's talk about your inspiration and how Stepanova's work and her creations and that, that month in Moscow inspired your work.
[00:17:47] Lippire: Artists residencies are interesting because I went not knowing anything. I mean, this was such a different environment, so I'm not really, I don't think I've really been in a non-capitalist huge city before. And so it was hard, um, to buy things. And so what I decided I wanted to do was just do everything as much as I could. And instead just kind of suck up as much of the culture and not really worry about making stuff and just kind of taking notes and photographs and just like, if the circus was a big thing, then I'm going to need to go to a circus. Like I would, I mean, I did everything I possibly could in that month and packed it in, even the coordinator was like, wow, I haven't even done all of this stuff yet. So, and then a lot of stuff on foot, obviously just getting to know the terrain. And I mean, it'd be so sad to go to Moscow and just sit in your studio and make work. You're not really being influenced by the culture. And so, and it's so vastly different. The scale of everything is so massive. Um, you know, we're so like, oh, New York is huge. And LA is huge. And we're the center of the world. And then you just go to Mexico City and you're just like, oh, we, this is. 10 times our city, right? And you go to Moscow and you're like, oh, wow. Eight, 8 million people take the Metro every day. It's this, it's just.
[00:19:15] Host: And you were in the heart of it, right in the very center, right?
[00:19:19] Lippire: So Moscow is a, is a series of rings. So you have the red square, which is in the center. And then it, and then there's like the garden ring and there's different rings. I was on the third ring outside the third ring. So that's kind of far out, but I'm still part of the city.
"...but cheese dairy, like that's all sanctioned. And she's telling me all this stuff that's sanctioned. And I was like, gosh, I wish we were sanctioned. And she goes, don't say that. And I go, no, it'd make us appreciate what we have. We do not appreciate any of the access we have to things. We are irritated when it's a day late in the mail."
[00:19:34] Host: It's huge.
[00:19:35] Lippire: It's so big. And this, this was a little more factory area. Although. Fabrika is the name of the residency and there is no, like no fabric involved. This was a fabric area actually. So I wanted to go into some fabric stores. We can't just go into a fabric store. There's no fabric stores. They just drive around. It's just a huge industrial space after huge industrial space. And these buildings are like a city block. I mean, they're massive. It was just little doors and that's it. And so I would search and I'm okay. This is the address. It's just like this massive building. And then you got to find the door that has these little plaques around it and find, you know, hopefully in Cyrillic or English translated or Latin letters that you could read where you're, where you wanted to go, and then you finally went in that door, you were scanned. Your ID was scanned. You had to have your passport at you on you at all times. So they took, they took your passport. Um, it took, you searched your bags every time you went anywhere, the mall, anywhere. And then they waited for somebody. Cause then they were like, okay, go in. I was like, yes, but where, like, where am I going? And then this guy happened to be walking by and he was going to go into the factory. And they were like, just follow this guy. He'll take you. I was like, okay. Nobody's speaking English. You know, this random guy is, and we're inside, we're outside. We're back inside. We're going upstairs, downstairs. I'm like, how am I going to get out of this place? And then he goes, and then he just points to this open door and I walked through and it's just this huge, just huge warehouse full of fabric. And I'm the only one in there, of course, because it's not easy to get into there. Uh, but it was amazing. And I went to a few fabric stores like that.
There's a lot of stores I couldn't find. I could never get into. I didn't understand. There's no doorbell. There's no, I mean, it's just a really amazing how. It's not, it's, it's really about serving needs and not wants. And that's, it's just so, uh, humbling, you know, especially with all the sanctions, my, uh, residency coordinator, she was telling me that like, if you have a Moscow passport, your address in, um, sorry, St. Petersburg, you can automatically go to Finland and then you can get cheese. And so you're limited on how much you can bring back, but cheese dairy, like that's all sanctioned. And she's telling me all this stuff that's sanctioned. And I was like, gosh, I wish we were sanctioned. And she goes, don't say that. And I go, no, it'd make us appreciate what we have. We do not appreciate any of the access we have to things. We are irritated when it's a day late in the mail. Um, so we don't understand any of that is such an enlightening. So they had to make their own everything, learn how to do dairy. And so you're eating Swiss cheese there. That doesn't, it looks like Swiss cheese, but it doesn't quite have the same taste. Like it's just all like a little different, but because they've had to figure it out.
"You could tell this was a culture that thought about the population, how to serve that population, how to be efficient. I mean, the efficiency thing in linking that to Constructivism was so obvious."
[00:22:38] Host: And the architecture was a big inspiration for you as well.
[00:22:42] Lippire: Yeah. That architecture is outrageous. Every church outside of, uh, Greek Orthodox, any of these churches were just different, so huge in St. Petersburg, that was this huge church. I mean, just this, the archway is like a colonnade outside space, but it was probably like three stories high and just went on for like, I don't know. Two football fields. And then there was still a church to go into. And that was just, I mean, it was just so massive. You could tell this was a culture that thought about the population, how to serve that population, how to be efficient. I mean, the efficiency thing in linking that to Constructivism was so obvious. The Metro every two minutes was the train every two minutes. I mean, unheard of when you're moving that kind of people. You never, you never waited. Every when you got on the train, there was no, no one. He talked, it was silent. So there's no like profanity and loudness, obnoxious, nothing. Everybody's just on their phone or just sitting there quietly. I mean, amazing. Yeah.
[00:23:57] Host: So one of the things I think, you know, you embraced Stepanova's pattern and, and, and you utilized pattern and formats. But there was something that, that like, if you were to look at the two works that really set yours apart is your color palette.
[00:24:19] Lippire: Yeah.
[00:24:20] Host: Um, it's, it's when you walk into your exhibit, you were hit with these vibrant yellows and oranges and, and, and teals, and it's kind of like forcing your eyes to pay attention. And I know color is an important element to everything that you do and talk about your choices in using this color palette and its contrast to, uh, what, what the constructivists and what Stepanova would, would have used in her time?
[00:24:53] Lippire: Well, I feel like she was probably really limited with what you had access to, what you, what colors you had available in terms of these, um, textile designs that she did. And so when I'm looking at reproductions of, um, they're either in gray scale, obviously red is a huge color in Russia. So you have your, you know, red, blue, and green. Those are kind of like the main, any colors you would see, but not a whole lot else. And I'm guessing that that's just lack of material or lack of that kind of, um, being introduced into the factories at that time. Um, you know, there's, she was doing black and white photography, um, and they did painting. So they had paints in color. A lot of the Constructivist buildings that I visited were also very colorful in their time. They're just all dilapidated and falling down.
And I just wanted to kind of give them a little bit more life, but yeah, like I just, I wanted it to be like, if Stepanova was still alive, if she was alive today and she had the full range of what we have now, um, what would she do? Like, which I think she would play a lot more with that color and impact the yellow, the yellow wall that was in the, um, exhibition actually came from the, uh, installation they did in Moscow. So the work first showed in Moscow, I couldn't go obviously. And so they just installed it themselves, which I saw. And we talked through the exhibition, of course. And so, but they picked that yellow and, and I really liked it and the idea of an accent wall. And, you know, they did a lot more full wallpaper on a whole wall, which I also really liked. And so playing with multiple patterns on top of each other. And so a lot of that came when I got to then do my own show and design it any way I wanted, I wanted to keep the yellow as a nod to that first show. And, um, and then I was able to show more stuff that I couldn't just ship over there. Like all the hand stamped and handmade wallpaper designs. They just printed them all, you know, big factory wise, but it was beautiful. They were beautiful. Yeah.
"You spend this month in Moscow and then it's like, what do you do with this? Right. And so I was, I was already talking to Christina when I was leaving. Like, can I come back? Can I come back and do a show? Like now I feel like I just, you need to like process what you've experienced and see how it will influence your work."
[00:27:09] Host: Now I want to talk about that show in Moscow. Uh, one of the elements at your show at Chapman university, you had these, um, posters there. They were very reminiscent of the, the, those photo montage propaganda posters that the constructivists would make. Um, and they detailed your journey of putting that show up in Moscow and bringing it back to LA and looking through, it was so intriguing and enthralling. It kind of felt like a spy novel. Uh, you're reading about artworks being smuggled and train trips and having to go to Turkey, to Sweden. I'd love for you to give us kind of that story of, uh, you were going to have a show and then a lot of hurdles happened and kind of take us through that journey.
"...they were trying to keep a really low profile and not say anything, because people were tagging Z's for Zed, right? So there was this pro Putin element going around to these spaces. And she's just like, we can't say anything. We have to be very discreet about it because we don't want to be a target."
[00:28:07] Lippire: Sure. So, right. You spend this month in Moscow and then it's like, what do you do with this? Right. And so I was, I was already talking to Christina when I was leaving. Like, can I come back? Can I come back and do a show? Like now I feel like I just, you need to like process what you've experienced and see how it will influence your work. And then I, you know, and I, I had proposed, um, like a commemorative figurative sculpture of actually, uh, Vavara Stepanova, um, with one of her set designs and like, as if it was a stone commemorative sculpture from way back when, anyway, I'd have to go in person and do it there. Um, and so we'd scheduled that for 2020 and then of course COVID, right? So, uh, and I'd already bought my ticket and everything. Cause it was for May. I wanted to go in May so I could see the, um, that frightening military parade that happens at the red square every year. Uh, I missed that.
And then, um, and then, and so this whole time we're just talking, right. Her and I, uh, zooming every once in a while, this, uh, so I had, cause I had come up with something else. And so. We were talking to, I was like, let me just focus on the work and I'll switch to 2D and we'll, we'll figure it out. And then it was like, okay, let's do it. 2022. We pushed it out because COVID, you know, like, let's give us a couple of years and I was like, great. And then of course, you know, February 24th, they start a war with Ukraine and it was just like, I, they, and, um, then nothing's going to happen. All the men fled, uh, Christina who is, uh, Christina Pestava was the curator there, the coordinator for me. And she was like, it's just, it's me. I'm the only one left. It's me and the director. Everyone's left, um, to flee conscription. Um, I don't know what's going to happen. And like a lot of other museums shut down, right. It's all in solidarity.
Of course, all that hurts are the local artists who now don't have any spaces to show in, but you know what, I don't know how you can protest something like that, uh, without hurting somebody. So, um, you know, as we're just talking, she's, she is now having to kind of save herself, like just in terms of financially the money dried up, um, cultures at a standstill, um, there's a lot of hostility out there. And so they're trying to keep a, they were trying to keep a really low profile and not say anything, because people were tagging Z's for Zed, right? So there was this pro Putin element going around to these spaces. And she's just like, we can't say anything. We have to be very discreet about it because we don't want to be a target.
"...you know, in a disturbing way, I'm really happy that I got sucked into this drama because we're so inoculated by any of these experiences over here. We just have no idea."
And so at that time, she already had two degrees already has two masters and she applied for a third, but before, before all this, she was already going to do a residency in Sweden for some research she was doing, so she had a way out and in fact, in January, before the war, they told her, we feel like something bad is going to, and this was, I'm sorry, Finland, they were like, we have a feeling something bad is going to happen and we need you to get all of your paperwork in now, like you need to do it now. Um, and she's so glad she did. Cause she wouldn't have been able to travel visa wise. So she goes and, uh, she ends up then starting after that, a degree in Northern Germany and a small town on the coast. And so now we're talking to each other and she's in Germany and now this is her new life for now. And we're just kind of talking about. What that's like and, um, how weird this all is and, um, traveling back and how difficult that is. And then, um, she does end up meeting a Swedish gentleman and they get married. And so now she lives in Sweden and that's how Sweden got connected into the exhibition is just because, and it's, you know, in a disturbing way, I'm really happy that I got sucked into this drama because we're so inoculated by any of these experiences over here. We just have no idea.
[00:32:21] Host: We just read about it or watch it and that's a, have no connection.
[00:32:25] Lippire: I mean, to be surrounded by other countries and how much their turmoil affects you, we're very, very, very lucky to have our two neighbors. So I just think all of that perspective was just really humbling for me.
"I had a, it was like in a giant portfolio case that was pretty thick, hard portfolio case. She had to repack it so it wasn't so suspicious where people, when you're crossing through the borders, even though she's a Russian citizen, even though she has her paperwork, they'd still stop her and look through it and be like, what is this?"
[00:32:40] Host: And how did the show come about then in 2024?
[00:32:43] Lippire: So she was, she, you know, so we're talking in Sweden and from Sweden and designing this whole thing. And, uh, we tried shipping stuff back and forth to each other. I went, she shipped something to me and then I shipped something to her and then it got, and she never got it, got returned six months later. Uh, actually this was in 2020. Um, or, you know, when I thought I was going to go back, I was just going to try this out and, um, never got it. She got it six months later. It was returned to me all waterlogged. Like who knows what happened to this thing? Um, so I was like, okay, well, that's not going to work.
So then I tried the post office this later for this, um, show in 2024. They were like, oh, I'm sorry. We just stopped shipping to Russia. And I was like, well, where do I go? And they were like, I don't know. Cause nobody was shipping anymore. Except for DHL, right. So go to DHL costs like an arm and a leg, like 300 bucks to send this most discreet tiny package that hardly weighed anything. And I was like, oh, I'm not going to ship my work. I was like, it'd be cheaper for me to fly it over and meet you in Germany. And so that's what we did. So I met her in Berlin and then right away she left on a train. Cause again, it's just like, she's got all these other commitments with her, um, master's program and everything. So she had to go there. She had to repack it, um, to get it into. So once it was in Sweden, she had to repack everything. I had a, it was like in a giant portfolio case that was pretty thick, hard portfolio case. She had to repack it so it wasn't so suspicious where people, when you're crossing through the borders, even though she's a Russian citizen, even though she has her paperwork, they'd still stop her and look through it and be like, what is this? And so she didn't want any of that. So everything had to be packed and separated out. And then she had her husband now to help her. So there was a second person to offload. Cause it was quite a lot of things. And then she, they were thinking about how to travel and when and where, and kind of decided train was the safest way, at least even back. So like borders were getting shut at the same time. I mean, it was just like, okay, let's go through Finland. Oh wait, Finland's gone. Okay. Let's go through this way. Nope. That country's gone. And it was just like hitting a wall after a wall after a wall until she had to do train, which is a little less, you know, your luggage is a little less gone through in that scenario, but.
[00:35:20] Host: Now what was the reception or what was the reaction to your exhibit in Moscow as a, as an American celebrating this very Russian art style in the middle of all of this turmoil between our countries and the, and the war between Russia and Ukraine.
[00:35:36] Lippire: Yeah. First of all, it opened in February or sorry, March. And it was 17 degrees out that night. And so people would walk into this gallery and it'd be all this color and that big yellow wall. And they would just be like, yay. It was so I'm grateful. It was very well received because it was kind of like the hope in a weird way that they needed, like not only just in color and vibrancy and energy, but also for them, the comments that I got were, they were shocked that an American would even look at anything Russian and think that it had something to offer of influence, had anything positive to give. Like they just are so used to the negativity and the, you know, the, we have this rivalry, right? Like always. And so, um, they were just like dumbfounded. Couldn't believe it. So happy that somebody was taking an interest in their culture and in their legacy and, and in a way that made it relevant for today, but it had a lot of, it had a lot of press and stuff. It was, it was good.
[00:36:50] Host: Well, I imagine that, that yellow and those, those vibrant colors kind of brought a little element of California.
[00:36:58] Lippire: Yeah, totally.
"Sometimes we can really get in our bubble and think we're the only innovators and we're the only ones doing this and that. And then you just travel anywhere and you're like, Oh my gosh. And they're doing it better. You know, usually it's more minimal, it's cheaper, it's better."
[00:37:00] Host: Um, and I know like you've, you've, you utilize breeze blocks and different parts of, of LA. So there is that element that you're, you're connecting these two cultures together.
[00:37:11] Lippire: Yeah. That we share stuff. I mean, you know, we, as humans, we, there just doesn't even matter where you are on the globe. There's, you know, this idea again, because we're so isolated here, just being with Mexico and, um, Canada. Sometimes we can really get in our bubble and think we're the only innovators and we're the only ones doing this and that. And then you just travel anywhere and you're like, Oh my gosh. And they're doing it better. You know, usually it's more minimal, it's cheaper, it's better. Um, and so I just wanted to be open to that. And, um, I just, and at the same time, what are our, like she made me, Stepanova, she made me really look at design, urban design differently. Like to notice it, uh, manhole covers, for example, were so cool. They're just so intricate and just interesting. I never paid attention to ours. Like, so then I go home and I'm looking at mine and I was like, Oh, mine, mine's good too. I got, and so then that becomes a design element. And so she made me just appreciate what I had taken for granted in my own city in terms of these little design elements that are functional, but they don't have to be plain or unthought through. That can be something that reflects a kind of aesthetic back to the urban experience.
[00:38:34] Host: So we're over a hundred years apart from the creation of this constructivist vision and style. What remains, and you've brought this up a little bit in this conversation, but what remains relevant from their mission and their motivation to where we are now in this day and age?
[00:38:56] Lippire: Well, the technology and the kind of interest in manufacturing and the idea of production, producing something that can be aesthetic, but also high functioning. And, and most likely even beyond that, beyond just the function, like what do people need? I think, I think why Constructivism is important now is just the optimism of that urban experience, the, the idealism, the utopian, I mean, they were just so hopeful and wanted like so much for everybody, you know, which you can get really run down in a big city and feel very like isolated and nobody cares or whatever. And so it's just that energy I really tapped into and I really liked. And so, you know, for me, there's like things that come back and now I want to design my own breeze blocks.
But I, you know, I just looking at like basic things like bus benches, they could be way cooler, they could be better. Okay. A bus bench could be way better and it could have some device that provides shade. Like what we're not thinking about how, you know, we have a captivated audience for brief period of time when you're waiting for a bus and why aren't we providing anything for that time? It's just such a wasted opportunity. And then I, and I, I just bring that up because they did a lot with newsstands and designed like really crazy kiosk newsstands that you could just fold up. And then they would just like accordion out in the coolest ways and walls and tables and all this stuff for information against sharing information. Like, what is that? And like, I don't know what they would do now with social media and the digital technology of information. Cause they're like analog, but, um, I think it would be interesting to see how they could do that to make it just a little more, again, accessible for everybody. Yeah.
[00:40:51] Host: And what is the plan for the exhibit now with where, where is it's next stop on it?
[00:40:56] Lippire: I have no idea. It just, it just lives now in my studio for, for right now, but I'm onto like a new stuff. So, you know, it's just like another, I'm going to Greece next. I'm excited about, um, and I want to do experiments with marble, but also again, this is just in, in ceramic work. Cause I want to get into the breeze block design and just get more again, the constructive is very minimal blocky. It just kind of go from there and see, see where I go, but I love it.
[00:41:29] Host: We'd like to thank Kristi Lippire. If you'd like to continue the conversation, visit chapman.edu/wilkinson to learn more. To access recommended books from our guests for further learning and for more socially conscious content, visit us at pastforward.org or follow us at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you podcast.
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