Jaime L. Jacobsen

Let's start by talking about how you found yourself in this world of documentary filmmaking. Was this something you knew at a young age, like, I want to tell stories this way? Or did you just find yourself in this path and then it caught hold and here you are?

[00:02:03] Jacobsen: Well, as a child, I was always one of those people who just didn't know what they wanted to do in life and loved so many different things. So I loved art and I love science and I didn't really know how to bring those two worlds together until probably maybe my early 20s. One thing that happened then was my mother remarried and she actually, my stepdad, his name is Dan, is a filmmaker. He's also a writer and an artist, a former geologist, Renaissance man, if you will. And my senior year of college, he took me along on a trip that he was doing over the winter break holiday. And he was working with the Old Harbor Native Corporation on a Ludic, with the Ludic tribe in Old Harbor, Alaska. And so he took me along and put a camera in my hands and had me interviewing tribal elders and filming wildlife and cultural ceremonies. And I just loved it. And I really have to thank him for encouraging me to pursue this as a career. I remember him saying, Jamie, you're really good at this. Just encouraged me and said, you can do this. And unlike some other filmmakers I've met, some of my colleagues and friends that I went to grad school with kind of had this running list of films that they want to make about this topic and this topic and this topic, and it's all sort of in their mind. I've always been a little bit more spontaneous in terms of just meeting interesting people or traveling to new places or uncovering ideas that I really want to explore and engage the public in through a film. So I've used film as a way to engage the public in the pressing issues of our time and foster conversations and connections. And it's oftentimes just very serendipitous projects that fall in my lap or connections that I've made that lead to these projects.

[00:04:01] Host: What is your research process like for preparing for a project?

[00:04:07] Jacobsen: That's a really interesting question. I would say the research process definitely varies depending on the topic and the type of film that I'm looking at producing. But one of the very first things that I try and do is interviews with people that are associated with the topic or the theme in some ways. And sometimes it's trying to really pick their brain and figure out what angle do you think we should take? What has already been said about this particular area? What do you think is interesting? What do you think we should share with others from your perspective? So I really like talking. Sometimes projects that I've worked on are client-based. I'm working to build and expand a Center for Science Communication at Colorado State University, where I am an associate professor in journalism and media communication. And so our center really looks at and researches the science of science communication. I think there's a lot of interest in communicating science effectively and compellingly, especially in our current climate. And so sometimes projects come to me where it's an entity or an institution that wants to communicate about a certain topic. And I really have to figure out what is interesting about this? How can I shed a new angle or get people to look at it in perhaps a different way? And so I really think talking to people first is one of the initial steps. And then I also really try and do kind of a literature review, if you will, but for media projects. So I look at what sort of podcasts have been produced, what sort of books have been written, what sort of articles in magazines and newspapers and what sort of art even is out there or music that relates to this particular topic. And I try and see how it's been covered and how it's been explored and what sort of gaps there might be and how we might want to build upon the existing canon, if you will.

[00:06:06] Host: Sure. I feel like documentaries themselves have kind of really found their moment within maybe the last 20 years. They've really found their way into more of the public discourse. And I kind of feel like the accessibility to be able to view them through streaming services or YouTube or Vimeo has opened that opportunity. I mean, before we would have to go see them at an arthouse theater or rent them, seek them out. But now you're just scrolling and you see this wonderful story available and a lot more people are engaging with this type of storytelling.

[00:06:51] Jacobsen: Yeah, it's both an opportunity and a challenge because I think along with the opportunity that you've mentioned, it's a great time to get content out in front of an audience. The stories have become really accessible to a wide range of viewers around the world. But it also means that you have to figure out how can you distinguish yourself with all the choices that there are of things to view and see. And so I think in some ways, it's an asset to those working in the industry that it's pushing us to become more creative and more innovative in how we market ourselves and the type of stories we're telling to kind of get through the noise, if you will, because there's just so much content out there and you're really competing against a lot of other storytellers. And so I think it's a really exciting time to be telling stories and can't really imagine it any other way.

[00:07:43] Host: Do you have any documentaries that inspired you or that you would consider that kind of pivotal thing that encourages you to continue down this path?

[00:07:57] Jacobsen: I'm trying to think, I mean, there's so many beautiful films out there. And I think that at different times, in different points in my career, different works have been inspirational to me. I've never done a film like this before, but I remember when I was in film school, we were exposed to a film by Errol Morris called The Thin Blue Line. And just thinking about how a documentary can actually change the course of events in the real world, where they were reconstructing an investigation. And that was really interesting just to think about the impact that a documentary can have. I also remember around that same time watching Supersize Me by Morgan Spurlock, which McDonald's actually got rid of their supersized options because of the health issues that were raised in this particular film when Morgan Spurlock, the director and filmmaker went on this 30-day like McDonald's only diet and as one might expect cost a lot of health challenges. And so just seeing that how documentaries can actually change the course of events and influence how people think and perceive and interact with the world was really powerful for me in my early days as a film student and as a filmmaker.

[00:09:23] Host: So let's talk about the Hold Your Ground film series and how this came about. Was this kind of like you were talking about something that was presented to you or was this something that you were curious about and you sought?

[00:09:40] Jacobsen: Yeah, so the Hold Our Ground series was a project that came to me and in our Center for Science Communication. And it's a collaboration with the Colorado Department of Agriculture. And it was one of those projects where we had an opportunity to incorporate films into a communications campaign to try and reach farmers and ranchers across the state of Colorado and encourage them to explore and engage in soil health practices as a way to increase the sustainability of food production in the state and ultimately creating just more resilient agricultural communities. And so I think from a big picture perspective, when they approached me as a filmmaker and our center to collaborate on this and wanted to write films into the proposal, it was a really unique opportunity. And it was something that I believed in kind of philosophically speaking, if you will. But I actually knew like next to nothing about soil or soil health and didn't think the first thing that came to my mind is like soil, okay, it's sort of brown and I mean, I don't know, it's sort of flat. I'm not sure like, how am I going to make a captivating cinematic story about soil health? And so this is actually one of the most-

[00:10:56] Host: Let me say, it was very cinematic and gorgeous and beautifully shot with an incredible soundtrack and I highly encourage everyone to check it out because you definitely did capture that even it just being soil. But please continue. I just have to say that because it was very gorgeous. It's such a really, really pretty series.

[00:11:21] Jacobsen: Thank you. Yeah, I have to credit. I worked with an incredible team of graduate students and faculty at Colorado State who I collaborated with on the cinematography. One of my graduate students, Eric Forbes, and one of my colleagues, Russick Smith was the music composer and mixer for the series and was just an honor to, yeah, really pair such incredible imagery and sound with these really compelling stories.

[00:11:51] Host: Will you tell our listeners a little bit about what the STAR program is? I’m going to get this wrong, Saving Tomorrow's Agricultural Resources, because that seems like kind of the driving force through this series.

[00:12:05] Jacobsen: Yeah, so the STAR program is actually a national program as far as I understand, but it was something that was being recently implemented in Colorado as a way to encourage agricultural producers to explore and innovate and focus on soil health. And so at the time that we secured this grant, which would have films as part of the outreach campaign, encouraging farmers and ranchers to become a STAR farmer, STAR rancher, STAR producer, if you will. It offered some unique possibilities in that there's a lot of risk that one takes on when producing food. And there's a lot of variables that you can't control, like the weather and markets and prices and things like that. So the idea of trying something different, that's not how it's always been done. There's a lot of barriers that would maybe prevent one or give one pause to reconsider how a certain field is treated, let's say. And so the STAR program provides, or at least at the time of the making of this series in Colorado, provided funding to farmers to undergo an idea that they had that they thought would fit their operation that they wanted to try on a test plot. And to get funding from the government to support that innovation and technical assistance as well to support that experimentation. And it really tried to remove some of the at least financial barriers to having, okay, what if this whole crop fails? At least we're not going in the hole, trying something new or we're being supported in our innovation. And so, yeah, that's the STAR program and the film series itself.

There is an episode that's the first one, which is called Hold Our Ground, which is the title of the full series itself. That's more public facing to help the general public understand what is soil health and why does it matter and how is it connected to water issues in the West and our changing climate? And then the other two episodes are directed towards farmers specifically and ranchers specifically sharing ideas on what they've tried, what questions they have in the interest of knowledge exchange and inspiration. And so when I was taking this project on, I think I was talking a little bit about soil health earlier and having no connection to it. And I really started by interviewing farmers and ranchers that some of our partners had connections to. And it was really just the people who were so fascinating and thoughtful and engaging that drew me in. And I had to really just think about why is this topic so important and kind of sell myself on it so that I can then craft a series that engages other people in it. But I think they made it easy for me because they're just a really compelling group of people. And I have so much respect for those who that produce our food after working on this project.

[00:15:06] Host: Were you looking for specific farms, like specific sizes or scale, like more family farm or a little bit more mid-level commercial size or kind of a mix of everything throughout this project?

[00:15:23] Jacobsen: One thing that was really important to us was to have diverse representation. And so one of the messages that I think comes through that a farmer by the name of Robert Sakata, who's in the farmers episode, talks about is that there's no kind of one size fits all solution. Every farmer and operation has to figure out what's going to work for them and their operation, their geographical context, their cultural, I don't want to say constraints, but factors that influence how food might be produced or grown. And so when producing this series, I think we definitely had a list of people that were recommended to us that were known as being innovators and change makers and people who were really already kind of pushing the edge, were inspiring, who we thought could inspire others. But I think we definitely, you know, that list didn't necessarily encompass all genders or ethnicities or geographical or cultural kind of backgrounds that are found in the state of Colorado. So we worked hard to also just try and broaden the representation to include not only the voices that kind of the media highlights first, you know, that come to mind immediately, but others that are engaging to really show that, you know, this is something that so many different communities and cultures are engaging with in our area.

[00:16:55] Host: One of the things I loved about this series is that it is farmers and ranchers exclusively talking about their challenges and their experiences in adopting these new practices. There isn't this voice of God opinion of the filmmaker through narration. It was the boots on the ground and the hands in the soil, experts themselves.

[00:17:22] Jacobsen: Yeah, that was something that I also really loved about the series. And admittedly, it was an active choice that we made as a filmmaking team and as storytellers to just focus on these are the people that are closest to this issue. These are the people that are producing our food. We want to hear directly from them, literally from the ground up. And I must say my institution, Colorado State University, we're known as being an ag school, a STEM institution. We have a lot of amazing faculty and researchers and scientists on staff doing really innovative work within the field of agriculture that certainly could have been, you know, consulted or featured in this series. And so I think there was a little bit of pressure to maybe feature traditional experts, if you will, that we had access to.

[00:18:10] Host: Like more on the science side of it. Yeah.

[00:18:13] Jacobsen: Yeah, exactly. But I'm really happy that we actively chose to go to the communities that were, you know, exploring these questions. And it was important to us to focus on peer to peer learning, you know, and fostering those relationships, because one of the things that really came out when we were interviewing these community members was that, you know, in the past, maybe there wasn't so much sharing and, you know, swapping of knowledge or like looking at each other's operations and having people that were willing to go on camera and say, these are the things I'm trying. Not everything's working. These are the things I'm concerned about and still have questions about. And this is where I hope to go. And being willing to be open and vulnerable and share those thoughts with their peers, I think was really, really powerful.

[00:19:05] Host: But it takes away that competition element of like, well, we need to have a larger yield than our neighbors or, you know, we need to sell more like it does put it back in the, if you succeed, we all succeed, if we succeed, we all succeed kind of mentality.

[00:19:22] Jacobsen: Very true.

[00:19:23] Host: I also like there is this this element of not everybody was at the same place as far as their process of adopting or adapting to regenerative farming and managing soil health. There were some who were just starting off with this kind of exploration. And then there were others that have been doing it for some time.

[00:19:47] Jacobsen: Yeah, and I think I'm happy that we were able to find people at different places in their own personal journey, because I think it just makes it more accessible to producers or audience members who might be watching this series to see that, you know, I don't necessarily have to be an expert if I don't have a background in this. That's OK. Other people have kind of started from scratch. Others have, you know, had the opportunity to have more engagement. But a lot is possible and that there's not just kind of one linear path. There's all sorts of different avenues for thinking about how we can prioritize the health of our soil and in doing so actually make our operations more financially sustainable and lucrative and, you know, help keep the farm in the family and preserve it for future generations and also meet some of the values that many producers had surrounding stewardship of the land and the natural resources and foreign fauna that exist alongside the agricultural crops. So that was something that, you know, was important.

[00:20:59] Host: What were some of the challenges that some of these farmers faced or obstacles, I should say, in kind of changing this this process or adapting to regenerative farming or just adapting to to climate change?

[00:21:17] Jacobsen: Yeah, I mean, some of the challenges that farmers and ranchers shared with me were human induced challenges or social challenges, if you will. There were many, I guess, different families that we spoke to where it was an intergenerational operation that had been the family passed down for quite some time. And just this idea of like these are the crops that we've traditionally grown and sold. And this is the way we've always done things. And this is how we do it. And really, you know, getting younger farmers and upcoming generations coming in with the idea of, well, maybe we should try something a little different, you know, the times are different. The context is different. Let's experiment. You know, there's definitely resistance to that. It's taking on additional risk and stress. And I think there is some pressure to just kind of go with how things have always been. And so the idea of innovating and experimentation was something that not everyone you know, there was kind of a spectrum in terms of how open folks were to engaging with that.

So I would say that was one of the challenges and barriers. I mean, I think we talked a little bit earlier just about the financial risk in agriculture. And there's so many variables that you can't control, specifically like the weather and market. So trying new things means taking on additional variables that you can't control. And just I think from a psychological perspective, you know, it's hard to kind of rationalize doing that when you already have so much that you literally I think a rancher by the name of Julie Sullivan said it quite nicely in that, you know, you spend decades becoming a master at this profession and there's still, you know, you really at the end of the day have very little control over your success. And so that's unique to those working in agriculture. And I think it's challenging to overcome in terms of doing things new and focusing on soil health. So those were a couple of the barriers that come to mind. There's a lot of other things that come into play, but those were two that really came out in some of the interviews that we did in the field.

[00:23:33] Host: I also like that this isn't a political issue, that when you're dealing with farmers and ranchers who have their boots on the ground and hands in the soil, I mean, they're experiencing climate change firsthand and how that affects their crops and their yields and that politics never had to play a part in this. It was just about adapting to the way the world is changing.

[00:24:06] Jacobsen: Yeah, I actually found, you know, it's really interesting thinking about the language we used to talk about polarizing issues and the words climate change or the phrase climate change or changing climate has become or is polarized in our current day. And I actually found that when I was interacting with farmers and ranchers that they talked to much more, I mean, climate change is sort of like, what does that mean? It means different things in different places. It's like this really big kind of nebulous concept or phenomena. And when I got on the ground, I heard farmers and ranchers talking about diminishing precipitation levels or shrinking aquifers or collapsing wells or it was just like very specific descriptions of what was actually happening in this case with precipitation and water and very specific and quantifiable that you couldn't really debate over because the language was so precise. So I think that is really helpful in depolarizing the issue because it's very clear what we're talking about and it's something that we all can witness or experience. Another good example that I heard about is thinking about like temperature and heat and how we all how we can experience heat and feel it like physically. And that is something that we experience on, you know, I guess just an experiential level and that people can come together and agree on because it's something that we physically feel and know because there's like sweat running down our foreheads. So I think just thinking about how we talk about these experiences can be really powerful and using really precise, specific language can help us get over some of these polarized divides that often stem from just sort of a different understanding of what we're actually talking about, I mean, or values being placed onto kind of more larger concepts. But if we're more precise, we are. I think it can really help in depolarizing and just focusing on kind of what matters and how the issue is playing out in people's lives.

[00:26:19] Host: I want to kind of use that to take us into talking about your most recent project, La Venezuela de mi Corazon, forgive my pronunciation, but I would love for you to talk about this project and where it kind of is in its production state.

[00:26:42] Jacobsen: Yeah. So something that really. I've been thinking a lot about and I thought about in producing the Hold Our Ground series that I've also I'm thinking about for La Venezuela de mi Corazon, which means the Venezuela of my heart, is how we go about telling stories with community members and telling stories, you know, what that more participatory storytelling process might look like, both from kind of an ethical standpoint, a practical standpoint. And, you know, it was something with the piece that we're just talking about, the soil health series, really trying to go to the ground and get a sense of, what stories do you think we need to convey to your peers in order to start to see change and to encourage people to adapt new practices and engage? And so for La Venezuela de mi Corazon, it's a different topic area. It has to do with basically actually it's a very personal project. I met several Venezuelan families up in Montana who had recently immigrated from Venezuela, escaping the social, political, economic crisis there. It's one of the, I think, largest mass migrations in Latin America that that we've seen with millions of people being displaced all over the world and to the U.S. as well.

And so I was really curious in just understanding immigration is a really polarized topic, speaking of polarization in the world right now, and just better understanding what it means to leave home, what it means to have a liminal identity where your sense of self and who you are and how you relate to your community is really in flux and changing and, you know, wondering how we can foster conversations across cultures and build bridges rather than, you know, promoting fear of our fellow human beings. And so, you know, those are kind of some of the under or overarching goals in this particular project. And what I'm doing is co-creating what we hope will be an online interactive documentary with several families that will include short films, photographs, perhaps some animations and maps and in both Spanish and English. And I am also working on writing what I hope will become a book about this experience to inspire, you know, other filmmakers and other storytellers to think about like how we can work together to tell these stories, especially about really sensitive topics in a way that promotes us, promotes connection and promotes seeing our fellow humanity. And so I think right now during our current times, we actually do have some concerns over how some of the content that we recorded and films can be shared without compromising the safety and well-being of the individuals and families that participated in the project. So it's really in flux right now and it's near and dear to my heart. And I think it's an important story to tell and to share. And I guess we'll have to see, you know, as time unfolds, what that will look like and how we can go about doing that in an informed, responsible, ethical and just way.

[00:30:08] Host: So, yeah, I imagine it would change because you started this a few years ago and now we're in this current climate, as you mentioned. I imagine it would change the way you kind of view this story, where fear is more at the forefront on both sides of the aisle, the fear of the families and then the fear of those who are afraid of, you know, the quote unquote dangerous immigrant. And I'd be curious to see what challenges you're facing right now in putting this together with this current political climate and the rhetoric that is out there and a lot of it directed to the Venezuelans specifically.

[00:31:02] Jacobsen: Yeah, it's an interesting place to be in, especially since we've essentially completed filming and ran out of money and some of the family circumstances have evolved and changed since we recorded their experiences and which were, you know, in terms of like chronologically speaking, closer to the time when they first arrived in the U.S. than now. Now some time has passed and that's given us some perspective. But with that, I've also been, I guess, content in a way as a storyteller and that some of the decisions we made at that time, I would still make today. I think we try and get in and show home life. We try and show what the family does together, those relationships between mother and child, you know, Venezuelan women and their children that are really the center of this piece. And it's something my role as a mother really connected me to these families and influenced, kind of, the type of stories and the access that we had to these people and what we could share. But I think I would still, you know, try and, you know, we filmed in a very, I think, intimate way. And I think just trying to bring that intimacy and connection through the visuals, through the sound, through the narrative so that we can see there's some rhetoric out there. I hate to even say it because it's somewhat damaging. But for the purpose of illustration here, there has been a narrative about immigrants from Latin America as this sort of horde of people coming up and invading. And we just see this image of sort of masses kind of descending. And you don't see actual faces of real people. And so I think instead of seeing a horde, my goal with this project is that we see our fellow humanity and fellow human beings, you know.

[00:33:01] Host: And it's just like what you did with the farmers. I mean, you're having the people tell their stories. It's their experiences. It's their challenges. It's it becomes more effective and more impactful than having to read about it in the news like this horde or having some politician or pundit talk about it or even a podcaster. It's that you nailed it, the humanity, being able to watch the humanity. And I think it works so well for Hold Your Ground as well. You're watching the humanity of these people try to figure out what the next steps are going to be.

[00:33:47] Jacobsen: Yeah, exactly. I think that's tremendously powerful and a great way to help us solve some of the pressing issues of our times and also just think about collectively as a society, as human beings, how we're going to move forward and what we want our communities to be like.

[00:34:03] Host: We'd like to thank Jamie Jacobson and the Center for Science Communication at Colorado State University. If you'd like to continue the conversation, visit chapman.edu.wilkinson and libarts.colostate.edu to learn more. To access recommended books from our guests for further learning and for more socially conscious content, visit us at pastforward.org or follow us at Apple, Spotify or wherever you podcast.