Arianna Barrios
In this episode students from Chapman University's 2025 Bateman Competition Team for EveryLibrary, Michael Elkins, Kestyn Hudson and Isaac Persky, connect with Arianna Barrios, member of the Orange City Council to discuss her role in determining the cuts to the Orange City Libraries. She discusses her history with Orange County and goes into detail on how the City Council examines where the money is going for the library system and how best protect the libraries themselves by streamlining and cutting hours of operation based on visitation metrics.
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Guest
Arianna Barrios has spent her life living, working, and volunteering in her hometown of Orange where she serves on the Orange City Council, representing the Old Towne Orange area of the City in District One. Today, Arianna lives and runs a small business in the City’s historic district as the owner of Communications LAB, a boutique Public Relations and Community Outreach firm that employs 11 communications professionals. In 2018, Arianna was recognized by Assembly Member Dr. Steven Choi and the State of California as the Woman of the Year in the 68th Assembly District. She was named to the National Advisory Board of the National Small Business Association in 2019 and continues to serve in that role. Barrios has served on several boards of directors including the Orange Chamber of Commerce, YWCA of Central Orange County, Orange Unified Educational Foundation, Pitcher Park Community Foundation and, Community Foundation of Orange.
"When people are talking to each other, sharing opinions and ideas freely without censorship or censure, we can really come to understand each other, our points of view, backgrounds, and come to collaborative decisions, whether that'd be in public policy, just regular business, whatever it may be."
Credits
Without These Libraries is a community-focused limited series. Special episodes are recorded to provide students an opportunity to discuss the challenges of adapting with technology, funding concerns, and the evolving role of libraries.
Guest: Arianna Barrios
Hosts: Michael Elkins, Kestyn Hudson, Brandon Mahgerefteh, and Isaac Persky
Produced by: Chapman University's 2025 Bateman Competition Team for EveryLibrary in collaboration with Past Forward
Past Forward is providing this podcast as a public service. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please read our Program and Product Disclaimer for more information.
Transcription
[00:00:02] Arianna Barrios: I think the libraries will always play a role. Like I said, they're evolving now. I think they'll continue to evolve. My hope would be they don't become something like a museum, where you're just going to see it like, "Oh, look at that addition of Huckleberry Finn that you can't find anywhere else anymore." That they should be living places of debate in community, so whatever that may be. How else are you going to find out about your world?
The hard part is that so much of it is available online now, but online there is no context. That's the problem for kids. Whether it's a library or school and you're talking about materials or literature or art or whatever it is, libraries, schools, or education give you context for that. Without context, you can get lost really quickly, and you can make assumptions that are wildly [laughs] inaccurate about what the information is telling you.
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[00:00:59] Presenter: Without These Libraries is a community-focused limited series. Special episodes are recorded to provide students an opportunity to discuss the challenges of adapting with technology, funding concerns, and the evolving role of libraries.
[00:01:15] Host: Welcome to Without Libraries, a three-part podcast series brought to you by Chapman University's 2025 Bateman Competition team for EveryLibrary in collaboration with Past Forward. In this series, we're diving into the critical issue of book banning and the looming threat of library closures across the United States, with a particular focus on our community here in Orange County.
[00:01:33] Host: In episode one, we will be talking to Ariana Barrios. She is a seasoned public servant and community advocate who currently serves as a member of the Orange City Council.
[00:01:42] Host: Join us as Ariana shares her thoughts on the importance of protecting our libraries and public services, and how we can work together to ensure that they remain pillars of our community. Hi, Ariana. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:54] Arianna: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:56] Host: To start off, you've obviously had a very impressive career, both as a public servant and a business owner. What inspired you to Open Communications Lab, and how does your work in PR align with your passion for community outreach and civic engagement?
[00:02:10] Arianna: Oh, that's a great question. Thank you for asking. Basically, one of my fundamental values is that I truly believe that 99% of problems can be solved through good communication. When people are talking to each other, sharing opinions and ideas freely without censorship or censure, we can really come to understand each other, our points of view, backgrounds, and come to collaborative decisions, whether that'd be in public policy, just regular business, whatever it may be.
I think that most of the time, and especially in today's environment, people talk past each other, and they don't listen. That's a big part of communications, but when all is said and done, if we communicate properly, we can get a lot of stuff done.
[00:03:02] Host: Absolutely.
[00:03:03] Host: You've also been a powerful advocate for small businesses in Orange, particularly your work with the Small Business Development Centers. What do you see as the most significant challenges facing small businesses today, and how can the local government better support them?
[00:03:20] Arianna: Oh, it's a great question. You hear a lot of people say, and certainly a lot of politicians say, "Small business is the backbone of our economy." Well, yes, [laughs] it is, because there's really something special about people who put their names and their savings and everything that they've got, sometimes their families, on the line to run their own small businesses. When you add all of those up, we add a lot more to the economy even than some of the big conglomerates.
It makes for a really vibrant community when you have a lot of small businesses where people are invested in the community as well as the businesses they run. With the Small Business Development Center, when I was at Rancho Santiago, making sure that that kept having funding, that that was something that had access, it was a huge deal because that allowed people who had a dream of a small business to find the resources they needed, for free, to help set up their own small business, to make that dream a reality.
I put my money where my mouth is. I used them to help set up my own LLC, to help me figure out accounting because I believe in communications but I am no good at math. I needed help to understand, "What is a profit and loss sheet? What does it mean to be accrual versus a cash-based business?" Those are things that not everybody has the background in. Those things are super, super important.
We employ a lot of people. Right now, I employ about 18 full-time, 2 part-time people in 2 separate offices across 2 different counties. When we started, we have 5. It's you grow, and you learn, and you keep moving forward. It's exciting. It's a lot of sleepless nights, it's a lot of incredible hours, but it's also very rewarding.
[00:05:15] Host: I find it interesting when you said that how a lot of people know how vital small businesses are to the community, but then it's also that they don't sometimes get the attention that they deserve and the funding as well. That's something I am sure you would like to see continue to change. I find that interesting that we know how important they are, but it's also it's not getting fixed yet. It's in progress.
[00:05:39] Arianna: When you look at things like the pandemic and COVID, one of the best things that they did right off the bat was to put out those protections for small business. Most of us are cash-poor businesses, or we don't have a lot of reserves, so when everything gets shut down, what do you do? Not only are you putting millions of people out of business or just out of work, then you have the possibility of putting millions of people out of business.
Because they put those protections in, I was able to retain every single one of my employees at the time. We were able to make it through that particular period, keep working, and it gave us just enough time to pivot and to find other areas of business where we could be useful and have a pure function, given the new environment. That actually helped us in the long-term.
[00:06:28] Host: Amazing.
[00:06:29] Host: In 2018, you were recognized as Woman of the Year in the 68th Assembly District. How did that recognition impact your career, and how does it motivate you to continue advocating for the community?
[00:06:40] Arianna: That's a great question. I'm not sure that it actually impacted my career so much as more a recognition of everything I had done to date. Was really, really honored. It was a tremendous thing to have my family there who's super important to me, and be acknowledged for what we do. Going back to your question about small business, being a small business owner, being my own boss, managing people, being a small business in my hometown, it allows me to give back to my community in real tangible ways, obviously with my time, certainly with my talent, but also with money as well. As we've grown, my contributions become greater to my community.
I think that the honor of that recognition was saying, "Hey, we know you're doing that. We understand that you've taken that time and you've really made that commitment to your fellow residents in your hometown."
[00:07:38] Host: You have a deep personal connection to the history of the Latino community in Orange County. How have things that you've encountered shaped your perspective on the importance of education and community advocacy?
[00:07:50] Arianna: Oh, no, that's the heart and soul of everything that I am. What's interesting is that the story that, just for your listeners, is the connection to the Mendez v. Westminster case. Now, growing up, my family didn't talk about that at all. As when you talk to some of the other families who were directly involved with the legal suit, their families didn't talk about it either.
It was something they knew had happened, but it was considered-- Nobody thinks twice about humble bragging now, but it was just foreboding in terms of in my family and a lot of the other Hispanic families, you just didn't talk about it, you get on with things. It was also embarrassing, I think, to a lot of families because it's admitting how badly the Latino community was treated back in the day, and nobody really wanted to get into that, and a lot of pride.
As I found out over growing up, probably during college is when I started hearing about this and that my family started talking about it, that this is what my grandfather had done, this is what my grandmother had been involved in. My dad, my aunts and uncles, they remembered that time period, which was really unique. My grandfather passed away really early, so I didn't have any relationship to him. There was a skip there.
It wasn't until my grandmother was much older and, for all intents and purposes, dying, I spent a lot of time with her, and she started telling me these stories, where I'm just like, "Oh my God." [laughs] I had no idea how involved my grandfather was, what his contribution was. While it has fueled my commitment to the Latino community but also to my local community, and learning that here in Orange, we actually have a hometown hero who was part of that.
It wasn't just the Mendez family, there were six other families involved, and one of them was from right here in Orange, to understand what role the Barrios market in Santa Ana played, and my grandfather played, and hearing other stories about the connections between the families, between the politics, between the community, has been a fascinating thing to learn and how it colors things that happen today. I think people don't realize that that history is very real even in today's environment.
“Maybe even just because it's not a pretty history, in that sense, and very little is known about the Latino or Chicano civil rights struggle. A lot of that, particularly in California, was overshadowed by the African-American struggle for civil rights liberties and recognition. Which is not to say that that's wrong or bad, it's just at the time period and even into the '90s and the early 2000s, people just weren't paying attention to that history.”
[00:10:17] Host: Can I ask, when you said why it was not something that you just talked about growing up, why was that?
[00:10:24] Arianna: I think it's just a cultural thing that it was just not seen as something that you would necessarily talk about because you'd be seen as being bragging. Maybe even just because it's not a pretty history, in that sense, and very little is known about the Latino or Chicano civil rights struggle. A lot of that, particularly in California, was overshadowed by the African-American struggle for civil rights liberties and recognition. Which is not to say that that's wrong or bad, it's just at the time period and even into the '90s and the early 2000s, people just weren't paying attention to that history. Now that we do, we are paying attention to it, we see the richness of that history and how brave people were in our own culture as well as in other communities across the United States and the South.
For example, my grandfather went to the Democratic Party when they were going through all of the processes for Mendez v. Westminster, and he begged them, begged them, begged them, begged them to get involved and to help. The answer that came back to him, and again, this isn't meant to be good or bad, it's just history, is they said, "No, we don't want to get involved. We'll not get involved. All of our efforts are focused on the south and getting desegregation passed in the South. We aren't going to mess that up by doing anything here," even though the exact same thing was happening here in Orange County and in other parts of California.
Now the irony is, had they had gotten involved, they would've had that roadmap to getting things done in the South much quicker as it is because of what happened here. That was the roadmap that Thoroughgood Marshall used to overturn the segregation of schools in Arkansas. An incredible thing. It was one of the proudest days of my grandfather's life that he got to meet Thoroughgood Marshall. Things happen for a reason, right?
[00:12:36] Host: Yes. Amazing. Look at everything now. That's--
[00:12:42] Arianna: Look at everything now. Mendez happened 10 years before the overturning of desegregation in the South. It was that roadmap that allowed them to go to the Supreme Court and get it overturned.
“It's not just about followers, it's about how you deliver that message.”
[00:12:55] Host: It's amazing. You've been an active mentor for students and aspiring public servants through programs like the Hispanic Heritage Foundation, Foundation's Law of Latino Leadership Academy. What do you hope young people take away from your experiences and your leadership efforts through that?
[00:13:15] Arianna: Well, again, I mentioned at the top communications, and I really emphasize that when I talk to young people, it can't all be through a phone. It can't all be through text, it can't all be through social media, that nothing will ever replace face-to-face communication because in a text message, you can't see how someone's reacting to what you say. All of your exclamation points do not come over as anything other than yelling.
It's that nuanced that if kids and future leaders really take that to heart, really learn how to interact personally, face to face with people, they will be ahead of the game in whatever they want to do. It helps you define your own reactions to people. It helps you define your elocution towards other people so that you can really frame an argument well and convince and persuade people. It's not just about followers, it's about how you deliver that message.
[00:14:18] Host: I agree. I think it's interesting that that's something that our generation definitely needs to work on, is more face-to-face communication as opposed to trying to communicate through text or something. You're right, that's the best way to-- I don't know if you guys agree.
[00:14:30] Host: Yes. Sure.
[00:14:31] Host: For sure. The same way and--
[00:14:31] Arianna: Way too many screens.
[00:14:32] Host: Way too many screens and we definitely--
[00:14:35] Arianna: They call it the soft skills, but it's super important. Just that idea when you meet somebody and you use two hands when you shake their hands or you put your hand on someone's shoulder and just thank you so much. That type of interaction with people is really skills we don't learn anymore and it's really important and it will serve you very, very well.
[00:14:59] Host: Absolutely.
"Our overall library budget was about six million and yet in these other cities, their library budgets were somewhere between three and four for larger cities with more libraries. Something was wrong."
[00:15:01] Host: For my next question, obviously you're aware of the funding cuts that I think went in place last month for the Orange public library system. What are your thoughts on how this could impact the community? I know for the two branch locations, I think their hours were cut almost in half and then the main location just had some reduced hours. What are your thoughts on this?
[00:15:28] Arianna: I'm really glad you're asking this because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in the community about what's happening. In most cases when you're talking about municipal government and you're talking about budget cuts or you need to do budget reductions, there is a knee-jerk reaction to slash and burn. It really was a very, not calculated, but it was looked at very strategically because we had one council member and he was 100% right. I didn't realize it at the time. I was a little taken aback. He had looked at all the other library systems within the Orange County. For cities that were twice our size, Santa Ana, Huntington Beach, Anaheim, they were spending half what we were spending on libraries in Orange.
Now, he didn't have an answer, and it was just the question. By looking at that and making an assessment, it was like, "How is that possible? That doesn't make any sense that we would be spending so much more." Our overall library budget was about six million and yet in these other cities, their library budgets were somewhere between three and four for larger cities with more libraries. Something was wrong. Again, we took a very detailed and diligent look at, maybe it's an operations issue. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it has to be about organizational efficiencies.
What we did is we empowered the staff to go and do an organizational assessment on the library. What is going on at our libraries that is costing so much? We didn't know, which are questions sadly that none of our predecessors had ever asked either, which is a whole nother podcast for you. In looking at it and being smart and diligent and asking the right questions, in the organizational review of how the libraries were being managed, we found that the library hours were not consistent with what our community wanted.
They were also on a permanent staffing plan that meant that they had to have a minimum amount of staff members on staff at the libraries at any given time all the time. I'll give you a guess. You want to know what other department has that same type of policy?
[00:17:55] Host: Which?
[00:17:56] Arianna: Our fire department.
[00:17:58] Host: Oh, okay.
“Over three months, you were able to see through metrics and actual real data, when were the peak times of library use for each of the libraries, and we could make an informed decision based on the best needs of our community.”
[00:17:59] Arianna: Not to say that libraries aren't important, but minimum staffing requirements of the library is a lot of garbage. It was causing astronomical amounts of fees and overruns in their budget for overtime, for having extra people on the hook as employees that we could bring in, almost like substitute teachers. We also found that librarians were not cross-trained, so if you are the children's librarian and the adult librarian or the teen reader librarian was out, you couldn't cross over and go help. We had to bring in somebody who was a specialist in that area. There was a lot of waste and a lot of things that just didn't make a lot of sense for our library.
Then the other thing that they did that I really loved is they took three months and just clocked who was coming into the library. Over three months, you were able to see through metrics and actual real data, when were the peak times of library use for each of the libraries, and we could make an informed decision based on the best needs of our community. While on the surface it looks like we cut a lot of money, that's not what we did. We actually cut a lot of waste, instituted a more efficient system, started removing policies that didn't make any sense, that would've forced us to--
When we originally started having this conversation, the idea was that TAF Library would be closed, that we would sell that library. Now we've been able to keep all three libraries, keep them open at the hours that make the most sense for our community for when they're using it. If everyone's using it five o'clock in the afternoon, that's when it should be open, not 10 o'clock in the morning when only two people are using it but five staff have to be on.
It's really about balance. Looking at that balance, having actual metrics and different stats that make a difference, and not just doing things in a slash and burn manner. Actually putting some thoughtfulness behind how you're going to continue, particularly because for our libraries-- I'm a library kid. I was in the library every summer, all summer when I was growing up. I lived two blocks away from it. I can actually tell you the secret pathway to get there. You're taught our library and our main library is different from any other library in any other city. We have a whole history center, where we are keeping huge archive not only for Orange but of the broader area, building up in the 1880s.
There's a lot to preserve that I'm very proprietary about, so I was really glad that we could adjust. Not cut but adjust in a way that made sense and that was defensible.
[00:20:44] Host: I think it's really great that you actually clarified that for us, because we didn't understand the reasonings behind it. Now that you say it, I don't know if you guys agree, it makes a lot of sense.
[00:20:53] Host: We didn't even-
[00:20:54] Arianna: Great. I'm glad.
[00:20:54] Host: -realize that librarians weren't cross-trained for specific other sections of the-- I didn't know that.
[00:21:00] Host: Yes. Then--
[00:21:01] Arianna: Those are things that happen over time, whether it's a large business or a municipal government, because I do a lot of work with other cities. Over time, things just get piled up. Sometimes it takes a budget crisis to shake everybody up to say, "Okay, we've got to look at things differently. Get out of our comfort zone. There are no sacred cows, but let's look at it." It doesn't have to be slash and burn. It can actually end up being a very positive thing because now we'll save $2 million or $3 million, which helps us elsewhere.
[00:21:32] Host: Absolutely. As someone that has also-- You served on a lot of various boards, like the Orange Chamber of Commerce and the Community Foundation of Orange. You definitely have a very unique perspective on the intersection of public service and local development. How do you think that libraries fit into this big broader picture of community growth and access to vital resources?
[00:21:55] Arianna: There's always going to be services that a library can provide, but clearly we're in a digital age. An information-- we have a saying here in our office for all the new people come in, it's, "Hey, if you don't know it, go Google that stuff." There's answers at your fingertips which your generation is so lucky in the wealth of information that's there. Libraries have to evolve, regardless. Who would have thought 10 years ago that the library would be a place to rent a ukulele? You have to rethink how you're doing things and what's important. We're allowing people access to audio books, online videos, digital streaming. It's just really, really changed.
The History Center is another aspect that makes us unique amongst libraries. We just have to keep looking at it and innovating, not just for innovation's sake, but what keeps a library relevant. Our library has done a pretty good job at that, and there's so much more we can do.
[00:23:01] Host: It's interesting. Like you just said, what are the ways we have to keep libraries relevant? I remember when I was a kid going to libraries, they would have-- that you could rent movie DVDs. DVDs, they're not really a thing anymore, but there would be tons that you could, through your library card, rent out. I remember thinking at the time that that was crazy, but looking now, that would never happen anymore because it's just not how our world is moving currently. It's interesting, like "I want to rent a Ukelele now."
[00:23:25] Host: As a kid during summer--
[00:23:26] Arianna: There's classes, too. There's all of that.
"There's still aspects of the library that can't be replicated online or through digital, and that's that sense of community, where you're bringing people together, whether it's story time for little kids, or it's the ukulele groups, or it's reading contests for older kids."
[00:23:29] Host: As a kid, during the summer, my mom would always have us go pick out one book and one DVD for the week. I know a lot of my childhood memories were in my local library. Just [crosstalk]
[00:23:41] Arianna: There's still aspects of the library that can't be replicated online or through digital, and that's that sense of community, where you're bringing people together, whether it's story time for little kids, or it's the ukulele groups, or it's reading contests for older kids. There's history groups that get together and there's places for students like yourselves to study in quiet private areas. It's evolving to be what the community needs.
[00:24:11] Host: That's a great transition to my next question, actually, because of this whole community connection that library brings. With the rising threat of library closures, especially in OC, what steps do you think local leaders should take to ensure libraries remain accessible to everyone, regardless of budget constraints?
[00:24:30] Arianna: Well, I think everything that I described in terms of what we did to methodically look at the library's budget is exactly what everybody needs to do to ensure that a library can survive. Then making sure that its programming is relevant, whether that be that you still need to have periodicals, or those things that we don't need to do as many subscriptions for as we used to. What's next is going to be really the interesting thing. I think digital will play a big role in that.
I know that our library has been looking into, how can we bring new interests about? Doing own version of a mini Comic-Con so that, again, we're creating community with a different style of literature, whether it's Manga? Did I get-- You know what I'm talking about. That we're looking at different ways that people would utilize those services. My guess is that lots of people have smartphones now and they have computers, so there's not even from just 5 to 10 years ago, such a need to go to the library to have access to computers.
I think it'll still be for a while that we'll need to offer that, and for accessibility because there's free Wi-Fi for people to use that, but the world is changing so fast. It's going to be about making sure that we also are staffing with leadership that understands that and is open to that change.
[00:25:59] Host: Absolutely.
"It's not just about saving money, it's about making money. That's a big part of what the council has been focused on. Nothing really has been done for economic development in 15 years. Those things have to happen for a city to keep running."
[00:26:01] Host: Also just considering that Orange is one of the-- it's the largest national registered historic district in California. Obviously here in Orange, there is a priority on maintaining our history through whatever historical archives we can have. How do we make sure that going forward, even if we are doing strategic cuts to libraries such as, "Oh, we're cutting hours here because we know people don't visit," how do we make sure that this doesn't turn into-- in 5, 10, 15, 30 years, the next people say, "Oh, well, really, we know we don't need this," and then "We don't need that." Then we get to a point where in 70 years, somehow, we've lost the Orange Historical Archives, which are obviously super important to this community.
[00:26:54] Arianna: That's a great question. When I came onto the council and certainly two years later when we got the council that we currently have now, we all had big plans. "We want to do this, we want to do that, and we want to implement all these things." What became apparent really quickly, because all the leadership had changed, not just the council itself, but the municipal employees who were running it from an executive level, there was a big turn over there. All of a sudden, we were faced with, “oh, my goodness.
Look at what this budget really, really is. It's bad, and it's really bad." Everyone's big plans instantly went out the window of like, 'Well, forget that, we're not doing any of these new things. We have to fix the fundamentals of our city."
I really honestly believe that together we have-- well, we have very different opinions about philosophies and political backgrounds and all of that. The council right now has been really united in, "Okay, let's fix this. Let's fix this down to the smallest detail so that it can go for another 50 to 70 years." Part of fixing that is also just understanding, you know what? It's not just about saving money, it's about making money. That's a big part of what the council has been focused on. Nothing really has been done for economic development in 15 years. Those things have to happen for a city to keep running.
You'll probably understand this as Chapman students, as Chapman has grown, that precipitates a lot of services that have to be given in order to maintain a certain level of comfort for all of our residents. It's all about balance. How are we balancing things, and what were we never asking before that we're asking for now? It's not all about cuts. Cuts will only get you a fraction of the way there. If you're not looking at your revenue stream too, which is a big part of what the council is focused on now, then you're never going to get there. You're going to be in a perpetual cycle of deficit and cuts. That's just terrifying for everybody. It destabilizes your city.
Right now, the council has stabilized the budget and is looking for, how do we raise revenue, and what is the smartest way to do that without selling the soul of our city down the road just to the highest bidder? It's an interesting time. It's a time of opportunity, and it's really tiring as well.
[00:29:30] Host: Wow. So many things we didn't know. It's crazy.
[00:29:32] Host: Well, thank you for that clarification and everything. On that topic, but a little bit different, this is obviously a huge topic in the national conversation right now is censorship. Orange having one of the most significant universities in Orange County, having Chapman here, I feel like that is an important topic for you guys to have. What are your thoughts on censorship and what is the stance that the City of Orange you'd like to see take on that, specifically maybe when it comes to book banning?
"If we're going to be free speech and First Amendment, which I think everybody should, we all have to realize that that comes with consequences on both sides. If you're going to defend, you have to defend all the way. You can't defend in a half-assed way. You're either all in or you're all out."
[00:30:13] Arianna: It's such an interesting question in today's day and age because even how people look at censorship is changing a little bit now. I was thinking about it this weekend, reading about all the changes that are coming with the current administration right now, all of the information that's being lost off of public websites. That's public information that's being wiped from people's view, which right or wrong, you don't have to agree with it. The fact that it's being kept out of view, that it's being taken down so that we can't even argue about it, that we can't even look at raw data and make decisions for ourself, I find that really scary.
In addition, you probably know this, maybe you don't, if someone walks into our libraries and wants to use the computer for porn, we can't stop them.
[00:31:05] Host: Oh wow.
[00:31:05] Arianna: If we're going to be free speech and First Amendment, which I think everybody should, we all have to realize that that comes with consequences on both sides. If you're going to defend, you have to defend all the way. You can't defend in a half-assed way. You're either all in or you're all out. Do you see what I'm saying? That can be very hard for people because it goes to the basis of, what is it we really care about? What is it that we really, really care about? If you really care about the First Amendment and free speech and not censoring books, then guess what? Books with the N word in it have to stay, as horrifying as it can be. You can't deny someone's version of the Holocaust, as horrifying as that can be.
It's really interesting question, and it's something I think that will be debated long after both me and you are gone because I think it's really hard for people to take it at the most base level. As long as people aren't getting hurt, they have the right to say what they want to say, as despicable as it may be sometimes.
[00:32:13] Host: That's so interesting because everyone's all about like, well, this life is all about free speech, but I never thought about what you said especially regarding libraries, like people can look up certain things that you're not supposed to and you can't tell them--
[00:32:26] Arianna: Tell them no.
[00:32:26] Host: You tell them no. Do you see the role that individual community members, especially let's look at here in Orange, play in the future of libraries and educational support as well? What do you see that being like going forward? If you think here in our community our library will be here for another 15 years, or will it be gone in 10 years or something? What do you think?
[00:32:52] Arianna: I think the libraries will always play a role. Like I said, they're evolving now. I think they'll continue to evolve. My hope would be they don't become something like a museum where you're just going to see it like, "Oh, look at that addition of Huckleberry Finn that you can't find anywhere else anymore." They should be living places of debate and community, whatever that may be. How else are you going to find out about your world?
The hard part is that so much of it is available online now, but online there is no context, and that's the problem for kids. Whether it's a library or school and you're talking about materials or literature or art or whatever it is, libraries, schools, or education give you context for that. Without context, you can get lost really quickly and you can make assumptions that are wildly inaccurate about what the information is telling you.
[00:33:46] Host: I would just be curious to know what your thoughts on, what can individuals in our community do to protect education, to protect free speech? What would you suggest just a normal Orange resident do just to support?
[00:34:09] Arianna: It starts at your front door, honestly. It's about looking at what kids on campus are doing and how they're interacting with each other. A lot of times when we're talking about what is the issue at the moment, it often comes down to free speech issues. To me it's always about being an advocate. Not an advocate for a side, an advocate for the conversation because the conversation is something that is an art form that we have lost, that debate.
One of my favorite stories in politics is that Tip O'Neill, who was the head of the Democratic Party and the Speaker of the House, and Ronald Reagan would get together every single week and have a steak dinner together. That would never happen today. That was only 10, 15, 20 years ago that that actually happened because they respected each other as combatants, as colleagues, and they were friends. You can fight all you want about different issues, not unlike the way my husband and I fight about different issues, but at the end of the day, we're family and we respect each other and we respect each other's opinion.
You need to protect things from being an All or Nothing game, which is not to say that there are going to be some things that are immutable, that are just going to be make or break for you. Everybody has those items in their life and in their values, but really check yourself as well as checking what people are saying. Tolerance is a word that has many uses in this world.
[00:35:42] Host: Wow. Absolutely. Thank you, Ariana, so much for telling everybody your story. This has been episode one of Without Libraries, a three-part podcast series brought to you by Chapman University's 2025 Bateman Competition Team for EveryLibrary in collaboration with Past Forward. Thank you for listening, and we will see you next time.
[00:36:03] Presenter: Libraries provide access to information and educational resources, promoting literacy, critical thinking skills, and community building by offering a safe space for people to learn, research, and connect with others. This micro-cast was created to provide librarians a platform to share stories about education, discuss current programs, and consider life without libraries. For more information, visit pastforward.com or follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you podcast.
